October 8, 1969

THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

MR. SCHULTZ: Please state your name.

THE WITNESS: My name is Robert Pierson.

MR. SCHULTZ: What is your occupation, please, Mr. Pierson?

THE WITNESS: I am a Chicago police officer assigned to the Sixth District Tactical Unit . . . .

MR. SCHULTZ: Now in August of 1968, specifically where were you employed please?

THE WITNESS: I was employed as an investigator for the State's Attorney's office of Cook County.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you have any assignment during the Democratic National Convention?

THE WITNESS: My assignment was as an undercover investigator.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you in any way alter your physical appearance to conduct your assignment as undercover investigator?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. I allowed my hair to grow long. I allowed myself to go without a shave for approximately four to six weeks. I purchased the attire of a motorcycle gang member, which is motorcycle boots, a black T-shirt, black levis and a black leather vest and a motorcycle helmet.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you obtain a motorcycle?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I rented a motorcycle.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now, calling, your attention to Friday, August 23, 1968, where did you

THE WITNESS: I went to Lincoln Park.

MR. SCHULTZ: What did you do at the park?

THE WITNESS: I talked with different members of the motorcycle gang and others, Yippies and people that I saw in the park that day. I stayed around the park area and talked with them, until the early evening hours of Friday.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now, calling your attention to the following day, which is Saturday, August 24, did you have occasion to go to Lincoln Park on that day?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. SCHULTZ: Who were you with on Saturday in Lincoln Park?

THE WITNESS: I was with a fellow known as Gorilla who headed a motorcycle gang, and another fellow by the name of Banana, and other members of the motorcycle gang.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you go home on Friday night and Saturday night?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not; I went to an apartment on the North Side.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now, calling your attention to Monday, August 26, 1968, did you have occasion on that day to go to Lincoln Park?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. SCHULTZ: Who did you meet with, please?

THE WITNESS: Fred Jordan.

MR. SCHULTZ: After meeting with Fred Jordan, did you have occasion to have a conversation with him?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. Jordan brought me over and introduced me to Abbie Hoffman. He said, "Abbie, this is Bob. He will be one of your bodyguards. He
handles himself well."
Hoffman shook my hand, said that he was glad to have me with him, and at that time Jordan also pointed out two other men that were bodyguards for Hoffman.
I said to Hoffman that last night's confrontation was a pretty good one. And Hoffman said to me last night, "They pushed us out of the park, but tonight, we're going to hold the park." He then said that, "We're going to-" and he used a foul word, "F-up the pigs and the Convention."

MR. SCHULTZ: What was the word, please, will you relate it?

THE WITNESS: He said "fuck."

MR. SCHULTZ: Then what did he say, please?

THE WITNESS: He said that, "If they push us out of the park tonight, we're going to break windows," and again he used a foul word.

MR. SCHULTZ: The same word?

THE WITNESS: Yes, and he said, "We're going to f-up the North Side." And he also said that, "We're going to create little Chicagos everywhere."

MR. SCHULTZ: What did you say when Hoffman told you this, please?

THE WITNESS: I told him that he could count on me helping him in every way in doing my best to keep him from being arrested.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now, Mr. Pierson. after leaving the defendant Hoffman, where did you go please?

THE WITNESS: I went back to the Lincoln Park area near the fieldhouse.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you have a conversation with Fred Jordan?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did. Jordan brought me over to the same area I previously showed you, east of the fieldhouse, and introduced me to Jerry Rubin.

MR. SCHULTZ: Do you see that person whom you identified as Jerry Rubin in the courtroom here?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. SCHULTZ: Would you point to him, please?

THE WITNESS: He's the man behind the attorney there with the yellow and red shirt and the black arm band.

MR. SCHULTZ: When you met the defendant Rubin at that time, did he look the way he looks now?

THE WITNESS: No, sir. His hair was very long and disarrayed, and his beard was possibly slightly longer.

MR. SCHULTZ: What happened after the conversation with Jordan. please?

THE WITNESS: Jordan brought me over and introduced me to Jerry Rubin. He said. "Jerry, this is Bob Levin. He will be your personal bodyguard. He can be trusted, and he handles himself well." Rubin shook my hand and said that he was glad to have me with him.

MR. SCHULTZ: Your name wasn't Levin at that time, was it, sir?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred after this introduction, please?

THE WITNESS: There was a commotion to the south of where Rubin and I were sitting, and we saw two men being placed in a squadrol. We walked over.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred when you arrived, please?

THE WITNESS: Rubin asked one of the people standing there what had happened, Ind they told him that Tom Hayden and Wolfe Lowenthal had been arrested.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you have a conversation with Rubin at the time?

THE WITNESS: Well, as we were walking away, Rubin kicked at the ground and said, "F-n' pigs," and he said, "We cannot stand a bust, especially from one of the Federal pigs."

MR. SCHULTZ: Let me just interrupt you and ask you if you know what the word "bust" means?

THE WITNESS: It means "arrest," and he said that "tonight, we're going to hold the park, and if we're pushed into the streets, we're going to . . ." again, f-up the Old Town area.

MR. SCHULTZ: During this conversation, did anyone have occasion to join you and Rubin?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, a girl by the name of Nancy joined us.

MR. SCHULTZ: After Nancy joined you and Rubin, what occurred, please?

THE WITNESS: We walked across the park over to where the large group of people had gathered which was west of the sidewalk. A person came out and met
us. He was one of the marshals.

MR. SCHULTZ: What, if anything, was said, please?

THE WITNESS: He told Rubin that a march was being formed to go down to Police Headquarters to free Rubin and Lowenthal.

MR. SCHULTZ: What did you do then?

THE WITNESS: I then went and got my motorcycle, drove over to 12th and State, parked the motorcycle, and I met the march at about 9th and State.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you have occasion to meet Rubin in the march?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I did.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now when you arrived at police headquarters, did you see any policemen in the area?

THE WITNESS: Yes, there were uniformed officers in front of the building on State Street and on the side of the building on 11th Street. Rubin said, "There are too many pigs here. Let's go to the Hilton."
We went east on 11th to Michigan Avenue and then north on Michigan Avenue. When the march was midpoint past the Logan statue, the crowd broke and ran up the statue screaming, "Take the hill."
They climbed the statue and displayed the Viet Cong flag, the red flag and the black flag.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now, did Rubin say anything at this time, at the time the people were rushing up with the flags?

THE WITNESS: While looking at the people rushing up the hill to the statue and seeing the flags, Rubin said that this was better than Iwo Jima.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred after the people went up to the top of the statue and Rubin made this statement?

THE WITNESS: I saw Rennie Davis with the microphone and the loudspeaker system.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you hear what Davis at this time was saying on the megaphone?

THE WITNESS: Davis said, "Hold the statue. Don't let the pigs move you out."

MR. SCHULTZ: All right, now, Mr. Pierson, calling your attention to the next day which is Tuesday, August 27, did you have occasion to go to Lincoln Park on that day?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you have occasion to meet with Jerry Rubin?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Rubin and I sat and talked for a while.

MR. SCHULTZ: And while you were sitting and talking, what occurred, please?

THE WITNESS: We saw some people tacking newspaper articles on some trees that were right along here. The first article that I remember looking at had the
headline, "The Battle of Chicago." When looking at this article, Rubin said to me that we have got to create little Chicagos everywhere, that we've got to have riots in every city. I told him that he could count on my being wherever he wanted me to go and to protect him from being arrested by the pigs.

MR. SCHULTZ: Do you recall any additional articles that the two of you looked at?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, we again walked over to another tree where there was another picture and another article. One of the pictures showed a policeman with a club, and Rubin looked at me and said, "Look at that fat pig. We should isolate one or two of the pigs and kill them."

MR. SCHULTZ: What did you say?

THE WITNESS: I agreed with him, and then we walked over to a group of marshals that were sitting on the west side of the sidewalk in the park.

MR. SCHULTZ: Would you relate the conversation that occurred at this time?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Rubin, after sitting down, said to the marshals, "We've got to do more to keep the crowd active so that we have them to help hold the park tonight," and "We want them in the park for the Bobby Seale speech that is going to be here tonight."

MR. SEALE: I object on the ground my lawyer Charles R. Garry is not here. You know my lawyer is not here, your Honor, and I want my lawyer here to speak when he mentions my name and testifies against me.

THE COURT: Ask him to sit down, Mr. Marshal, please.

THE MARSHAL: Sit down, Mr. Seale.

MR. SCHULTZ: Your Honor, this little episode for the benefit of the jury is intended simply to misconstrue the fact that this man originally had four lawyers to start with, and I think that should be on the record in front of the jury.

MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, I object to calling it a little episode for the benefit of the jury. I think he should be admonished for it.

THE COURT: I will direct the jury to disregard the incident but I shall deal appropriately in due course with the incident.

MR. KUNSTLER: I make an objection to your Honor's last remark.

THE COURT: I overrule your objection, sir.

MR. SCHULTZ: Would you continue to relate the conversation, please?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. One of the marshals asked Rubin, "Jerry, did you see the newspaper articles on the tree and did you see the pictures of the newsmen that had been injured?" Rubin said, "Yes." And the marshal said, "Now the newsmen will be on our side." And Rubin agreed, and then Rubin also said that now we have the newsmen on our side, now we need the people on our side. One of the ways to get this would be to start fires in the Loop that would cause the armed forces and police to come out in force, and it would show the people all over the country that we are living in a police state.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred then?

THE WITNESS: Nancy, Rubin and I went over to a tavern to make a telephone call, but just prior to going there, Rubin said to me that he would like to have the---take the crowd in Lincoln Park down to Grant Park and Bobby Seale give his speech there, and I told him that it would be a good idea, that it would really foul up traffic at that time of day.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you have a conversation with Rubin after he left the tavern?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did. Rubin said that he had contacted the Peace and Freedom people about having the Bobby Seale speech held at Grant Park and they had told him they did not want it there because there was too much of a chance of Seale's being arrested there. They would rather keep it in Lincoln Park where they could get him away if the pigs tried to arrest him.

MR. SCHULTZ: Now, on the way back to Lincoln Park from the tavern, was there any conversation?

THE WITNESS: Yes. Rubin said to me that Abbie Hoffman had had a meeting with the Blackstone Rangers earlier that day. Tuesday, and that the Blackstone Rangers had agreed to come to Lincoln Park and help hold the park and fight the pigs. Rubin told me that he did not believe that they would do this and asked me what I thought, and I told him that I agreed with him, I also did not believe that the Rangers would come and join in the fight.

MR. SCHULTZ: All right. Now what, if anything, occurred after this conversation when you arrived in Lincoln Park?

THE WITNESS: Two people walked up to us. One of them had an aerosol can and another a plastic bag. The man with the plastic bag said to Rubin, "We are going to fill this bag with human shit and we are going to throw it at the pigs tonight." And Rubin laughed and said, "Good. It will make good food for the pigs."

MR. SCHULTZ: Had you made any notes earlier that day?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. SCHULTZ: What had you done with the notes that you had made, Mr. Pierson?

THE WITNESS: When I was not with Rubin and I was standing a short distance away, I would get the attention of one of the Chicago Police Intelligence personnel; I would wad up the note, throw it on the ground, and they would come and pick it up.
On other occasions I would go down in the washroom in the field house and leave notes after again getting the attention of one of the Intelligence personnel and leave the note behind the plumbing facilities down there.

MR. SCHULTZ: At about seven o'clock in the area where the people were assembling, what, if anything, occurred?

THE WITNESS: We sat down and one man gave a speech and then Phil Ochs sang a song and as Phil Ochs was completing his song, Bobby Seale, Stew Albert, some of the Black Panthers and some of the Headhunters arrived and stood right next to where we were seated.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred at the time that Albert arrived with Bobby Seale?

THE WITNESS: Well, Phil Ochs completed his song and then Jerry Rubin gave a talk and after his talk Bobby Seale gave a talk.

MR. SCHULTZ: Do you recall any of what the defendant Rubin said?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Rubin said that America is not free and that the elections are phony.
He also said that we have got to disrupt or stop the election on Election Day.
He said that we have got to become fighters and take this country away from the people that run it and we have got to take to the streets in small groups, and I believe he ended his speech with "See you in the streets tonight."

MR. SCHULTZ: Now after Rubin spoke, who spoke next please, if anyone?

THE WITNESS: Bobby Seale.

MR. SCHULTZ: Do you recall any of the speech made by Bobby Seale?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Again it was long but I remember part of it.
In some of the speech, he made mention of Huey Newton and some of the other people in the Black Panther Party. He also said that the time for singing "We Shall Overcome" is past, that now is the time to act, to go buy a .357 Magnum, a .45, and a carbine and kill the pigs, that we've got to break up into small groups, and create guerrilla warfare everywhere, that we can no longer be arrested in large groups or killed in large groups, that we've got to break into small groups and surround the pigs.

MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Pierson, when the defendant Rubin was speaking, what was the crowd doing?

THE WITNESS: Well, at different points during the speech, they would applaud and cheer.

MR. SCHULTZ: And when the defendant Seale spoke, what, if anything, did the crowd do?

THE WITNESS: The exact same thing. They would applaud and cheer.

MR. SCHULTZ: At about 11:30 at night, that is, Tuesday night, August 27, 1968, were you still with Rubin, Mr. Pierson?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I was.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred in your presence and Rubin's presence at about 11:30 that night?

THE WITNESS: The police asked the crowd to leave the park. When no one left, the police began to advance in a line across the park. When they got maybe twenty-five or thirty feet away, the crowd began to pelt the police with these rocks, and bottles, and other objects that they had gathered. The police then came and they had a truck with lighting equipment on it, and they had some tear gas guns on it , and they shot the tear gas into where we were. We would run a short distance until we got away from the tear gas, and then we would stand and continue yelling, and screaming at the police.

MR. SCHULTZ: You say, "We would stand and yell and scream." Would you describe, would you tell us first who "we" is?

THE WITNESS: Well, "we" would be Rubin, Albert, Nancy, Judy, Vince, Al, myself, and a number of unidentified people.

MR. SCHULTZ: Was Rubin yelling at the police?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. SCHULTZ: All right, now, where did you go, please?

THE WITNESS: We went on to Clark Street right over here by this triangle.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred at that point?

THE WITNESS: There was a CTA bus heading in a southerly direction, and the people began kicking at the doors and trying to break the windows, and they began rocking the bus, trying to roll it over.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did Rubin do anything to the bus?

THE WITNESS: Not that I recall, no, sir.

MR. SCHULTZ: All right, after the group attacked the bus, what occurred next please?

THE WITNESS: We then continued to run westerly away from the police because by now, they were out of the park, coming onto Clark Street. As we were running Judy handed Rubin and I each a small bottle of paint. At this time, a police car had come east on Wisconsin and had parked. As we ran by it, we both threw the bottles of paint at the police car, and I didn't hit and I don't know that Rubin's bottle hit the police car either.

MR. SCHULTZ: After throwing the paint at the police car, Mr. Pierson, where did you go?

THE WITNESS: We then continued to run west and north off of Lincoln Avenue over to Armitage.

MR. SCHULTZ: What occurred near Cleveland and Armitage, please?

THE WITNESS: We ran west on Armitage to Cleveland and Armitage. At this intersection, Judy took a match and lit a large barrel, trash barrel on the corner, and started it on fire. We then ran another half a block west of Cleveland on Armitage, and at this time, a CTA bus was going west on Armitage. Al and Stew Albert threw rocks at the bus, and I remember Al, the one he threw, went right through the bus window. We then ran further west.

MR. SCHULTZ: Actually, did you observe Rubin throw any rocks at that bus?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I don't recall him throwing any.

MR. SCHULTZ: Then what occurred, please?

THE WITNESS: Then we got to a porch about a block-and-a-half west of Cleveland on Armitage. We walked up on the porch, sat down and laughed about what we had done, and sat and watched the Fire Department respond and put out the fire, and then we saw the different cars respond to approximately where the bus had been rocked.

MR. SCHULTZ: All right. Now, calling your attention to Wednesday, August 28, at approximately eleven o'clock in the morning, would you tell the Court and the jury, please, where you went, Mr. Pierson?

THE WITNESS: I went back to Lincoln Park.

MR. SCHULTZ: Whom did you meet in Lincoln Park, please?

THE WITNESS: I met Wolfe Lowenthal, a fellow by the name of Steve, a girl by the name of Mary, and myself, and we went in Steve's car, which was a Volkswagen, from Lincoln Park to Grant Park.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you meet anybody in Grant Park across from the Hilton?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I met Jerry Rubin, Stew Albert, Nancy, Judy, Vince, Al and this other girl that had been with us on Tuesday night.

MR. SCHULTZ: Where did you go, please?

THE WITNESS: We walked over up Balbo to Columbus and cut through the park there and went over to the Bandshell.

MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Pierson, will you relate the conversation that you had with Rubin shortly after arriving in the park?

THE WITNESS: Rubin told me that Robin was going to bring a live pig to the Bandshell and that he wanted me to go with him and take the live pig up on the stage when he gave his speech because this would cause the police to come in to retrieve the pig and would cause a confrontation between the crowd and the police.
Rubin said that he and Abbie Hoffman, Tom Hayden, Bobby Seale and other out-of-state leaders had gone to their out-of-state people and told them to bring back to their home cities the revolution that had started in Chicago, and that two of the issues that were good to keep pushing with the people were the Vietnam issue and the civil rights issue as these kept the crowds together.

MR. SCHULTZ: Calling your attention to the middle of the afternoon. about three o'clock in the afternoon, do you recall any specific incident that occurred while you were with Rubin?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, there was a flag-lowering incident.

MR. SCHULTZ: Would you relate what occurred, please, while you and Rubin were standing there?

THE WITNESS: A few people had lowered the American flag and had raised a red flag or attempted to raise one. At this time the police moved in to retrieve the American flag.

MR. SCHULTZ: Then what occurred, please?

THE WITNESS: Then as this happened, the crowd began to pelt the police with various objects. The crowd then surged toward the police and Rubin and I and Stew Albert and others that were with us were surging toward the police, and at this time a marked police car came from behind us.
When it got to the midst of where Rubin, Stew Albert and others that we were with were standing, the crowd began to jump on the car and try to roll the car over. Rubin began to yell, "Kill the pigs! Kill the cops!"
The police car finally got out of the crowd and got over to in front of the flagpole. Rubin continued to scream "Kill the pigs! Kill the cops!"
When the police got out of the car, they were hit with various objects that were thrown from the crowd.
At this time there was an announcement on the stage of the Bandshell by Steve telling the crowd sit down, don't attack the police and they won't attack you. The crowd began to sit down and Rubin ran over and screamed at Steve to stay off of the microphone and let the crowd do their thing. The crowd by this time, though, had begun to settle down and sit down.
Rubin walked over to where Stew Albert and I were, and he said, "Robin is here, he has the live pig. Let's go get the pig and start it all over again."
We than walked around the crowd over to where Robin was supposed to have his car and have the live pig in the car.
We walked around the back of the crowd and we saw two people that I recognized and one of them said, "There's Pierson."
With that I told Rubin that I would meet him a little later, that I had to go over and use the washroom. So I turned around and left.

MR. SCHULTZ: Where did you go, please?

THE WITNESS: I went over onto Columbus Drive by the sidewalk and listened to some of the other speeches and then later I went over and reported to Deputy Superintendent Rochford.

MR. SCHULTZ: Did you discontinue your undercover surveillance at that time?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. SCHULTZ: No more questions on direct examination. . . .

THE COURT: Who will cross-examine the witness, Robert Pierson?

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Pierson, your father is a retired police lieutenant, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, he is.

MR. KUNSTLER: Is your uncle in the Chicago Police Force today?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, we can show an interest, I think, a family connection. I don't see where that is objectionable.

THE COURT: There is nothing to indicate here that this witness' relatives are involved. I will let my ruling stand, sir.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Pierson, from 1963 to date, have you spent any time in a hospital for mental reasons, for treatment of any mental condition?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

MR. KUNSTLER: You have not?

THE WITNESS: I have not.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Pierson, was your discharge from the army for medical reasons?

THE WITNESS: My discharge from the United States Army was an honorable discharge after serving my full period of time.

MR. KUNSTLER: Was it for medical reasons? Was it a medical discharge?

THE WITNESS: No, it was after serving my period of time.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Pierson, I am going to show you Defendants' D-20 for identification and ask you if you know what that magazine is.

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I do. It is Official Detective magazine, the December 1968 issue.

MR. KUNSTLER: Does it contain an article by you about the events in Chicago in August 1968?

THE WITNESS: It contains an article for which I signed a release on a byline by me. A Mr. Brannon mailed to me a list of, I believe it was either twenty-two or twenty-four questions to which I sent answers to those questions.

MR. KUNSTLER: Were you paid for this article?

THE WITNESS: Yes, one hundred dollars.

MR. KUNSTLER: After you read the article, did you find some things were inaccurate in it?

THE WITNESS: Many things that were inaccurate as far as what I had told Mr. Brannon.

MR. KUNSTLER: Is it your testimony that the inaccurate statements in here are not statements which you made to Mr. Brannon? That is all I am asking.

THE WITNESS: That is true .

MR. KUNSTLER: Now, at some time during your period in Lincoln Park of the times you have testified, August 23 through August 28, were you, yourself, struck by a police club?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I was.

MR. KUNSTLER: How many times did that occur?

THE WITNESS: Two or three times.

MR. KUNSTLER: At that time, were you throwing rocks?

THE WITNESS: I was standing with a group that had thrown objects at the time that I was with them.

MR. KUNSTLER: I would like the witness to be directed to answer yes or no.

THE COURT: You may answer that question yes or no if you can.

THE WITNESS: No, I was not.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you ever throw rocks at the police during any of these days in the park?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.

MR. KUNSTLER: When was that?

THE WITNESS: On Monday night.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you hit any policemen?

THE WITNESS: No, I did not.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you ever call policemen "pigs" during this period of time?

THE WITNESS: I referred to them as pigs.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you ever scream during any of this period of time any epithet whatsoever?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I would join in some of the chants that were yelled at the police during that time I was assigned to this undercover assignment.

MR. KUNSTLER: Were you given instructions to call cops "pigs" and throw things at them? Was that part of your assignment?

THE WITNESS: No.

MR. KUNSTLER: You volunteered for this assignment, didn't you?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. KUNSTLER: When did you first get the apartment on the North Side, after August 16, or before?

THE WITNESS: The apartment was not one which I rented, It was an apartment belonging to a member of our staff, and I merely used it during this period of time.

MR. KUNSTLER: Were you there alone or with somebody?

THE WITNESS: There were times I was there alone, and there were other times I was there with someone.

MR. KUNSTLER: Was a person named Sunny with you at any time at that apartment?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: That is a girl, is it not?

THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.

MR. KUNSTLER: And how much time did she spend there?

THE WITNESS: I don't recall.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did she stay overnight?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

MR. KUNSTLER: Do you know who Sunny is?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. KUNSTLER: Who is she?

THE WITNESS: One of the members, a female member of the cyclists' gang.

MR. KUNSTLER: When you testified before the grand jury, do you recall testifying about Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Rubin? I am talking about the incidents in which
they said something about "We are going to create little Chicagos everywhere," or words to that effect.

THE WITNESS: I believe I was asked questions about those events, yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: I will show you your grand jury testimony, D-19, and ask you if anywhere in that testimony you related to the grand jury anything about these statements. I think you will find Mr. Hoffman's on 172.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

MR. KUNSTLER: Does that contain any reference to creating little Chicagos anywhere?

THE WITNESS: I do not see it here.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Pierson, do you have your statement in front of you, the statement you made? It is our Exhibit No. 22.

THE WITNESS: My police report, sir? Yes, sir, I do.

MR. KUNSTLER: Would you look through that and see where there is any reference to this language attributable either to Mr. Hoffman or Jerry Rubin?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I do not find any.

MR. KUNSTLER: You do not find any?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

MR. KUNSTLER: Thank you. I have no further questions, your Honor.

MR. WEINGLASS: You spent Friday, Saturday and Sunday establishing your cover as an agent with the Headhunters, isn't that correct?

THE WITNESS: That is, as well as talking to the various groups of people in the park.

MR. WEINGLASS: When your cover was established by Sunday, you were then introduced to Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin on Monday, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: I was introduced to them on Monday, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: By this same gentleman by the name of Fred Jordan?

THE WITNESS: That is correct, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Who did you meet at the Headhunters? Who was your first contact with the Headhunters?

THE WITNESS: A fellow by the name of Banana.

MR. WEINGLASS: When you met him, were you alone or were you with Sunny?

THE WITNESS: I believe I had been talking to Sunny when I met Banana.

MR. WEINGLASS: Wasn't it, in fact, Sunny, the female motorcyclist, who introduced you to Banana?

THE WITNESS: It is possible that she did. I don't recall just how we met.

MR. WEINGLASS: Is there any particular reason why you can't recall who introduced you to Banana but you do recall who introduced you to Rubin and Hoffman?

THE WITNESS: No particular reason.

MR. WEINGLASS: The reason you are having difficulty can't be attributed to any sensitivity over Sunny's role in all this, could it?

THE WITNESS: No sensitivity at all.

MR. WEINGLASS: That was the first time you ever met Sunny, was Friday?

THE WITNESS: I had seen her before but the first time I was with her was on Friday.

MR. WEINGLASS: Where had you seen Sunny before?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Sunny didn't know you were a police officer, did she?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: You took Sunny back with you to your apartment, isn't that correct?

THE WITNESS: It was not my apartment, as I believe I stated, sir. It was an apartment belonging to one of our Assistant State's Attorneys. and she was present in
that apartment on occasions where I would be making notes, yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: And did Sunny observe you making notes?
THE WITNESS: I don't believe that she was watching me when I made notes at any particular time.

MR. WEINGLASS: Weren't you somewhat concerned that Sunny would find out that you were a police officer?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Was any attempt made by you to hide the fact that you were a police officer while you were in the apartment with Sunny?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ever see the defendant Jerry Rubin in this period of time from Monday to Wednesday when you spent a good deal of time with him wearing a helmet?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now you came into the park Monday morning and you were introduced to Abbie Hoffman, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: And it was during that period of time that you spent alone with him that he related to you that the park should be held that night, isn't that
correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, among other things.

MR. WEINGLASS: Were there any witnesses to your private conversation with Abbie?

THE WITNESS: Not that I am aware of.

MR. SCHULTZ: His name, if the Court please, is Abbott Hoffman, not Abbie. I would ask that Mr. Weinglass refer to him by his proper name.

MR. WEINGLASS: Yes. I am sorry. Were you aware that there were two police officers who were following Abbie at a certain distance---Abbie Hoffman?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I am not. I was not aware of that.

MR. WEINGLASS: Then after approximately an hour with Abbott Hoffman, you were introduced by the same gentleman to Jerry Rubin, am I correct on that?

THE WITNESS: I was subsequently introduced to Jerry Rubin.

MR. WEINGLASS: Where did you and Jerry Rubin go?

THE WITNESS: We walked east from the field house down the knoll and sat down and talked for a while.

MR. WEINGLASS: This was another private conversation you had with one of the defendants, is that correct?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please, as to the form of the question.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, from the time that you met Jerry Rubin at either 12:30 or 1:00 until the time you left this park after the protest march was formed, did you ever see Jerry Rubin participating in a self-defense class which was being taught by the defendant Abbie Hoffman?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: And, I ask you if Officer Aznavoorian placed these two defendants there at that time, would he be mistaken?

MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Weinglass is construing facts to suit himself, and then putting them in the witness' mouth and asking a question.

THE COURT: Do you object?

MR. SCHULTZ: I certainly do.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: I can't phrase a question, I understand now, based on what a prior witness testified to?

THE COURT: I am ruling on the propriety of that question or the impropriety of it, Mr. Weinglass.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, there was a "Free Hayden" protest march, as you describe it, being formed in the park after you were with Jerry Rubin for a period of time, correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, there was a march.

MR. WEINGLASS: Was anyone throwing anything from the line of march?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not see anyone throw anything from the march.

MR. WEINGLASS: It was an orderly march, wasn't it, Officer?

THE WITNESS: To the best that I can recall, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: The protest march proceeded to Logan statue, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Walking orderly toward the statue, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: No, they ran up the hill of the statue screaming, "Take the hill!"

MR. WEINGLASS: Aside from the young man who was up on the statue, did you see any arrests being made?

THE WITNESS: I don't recall, sir, any arrests made.

MR. WEINGLASS: You said Davis said, "Hold the statue. Don't let the pigs move you out." Is that correct?

THE WITNESS: To the best I recall, that is what he said.

MR. WEINGLASS: And after he said that, what did you see? Did anyone move to hold the statue?

THE WITNESS: Some remained, some left.

MR. WEINGLASS: Officer Pierson, you know as a law enforcement officer, is there to the statues anything illegal about a group of people in the middle of the day going up

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: You testified that at a given point Tuesday morning, you once again found yourself alone with Jerry Rubin and had a private conversation with him?

THE WITNESS: After a period of time, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: One of those comments, I believe you testified to, was Jerry Rubin said words to the effect that, "We should isolate one or two of the pigs and kill them." Is that correct?

THE WITNESS: That is correct, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ask him where this was going to happen?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ask him who was going to do this?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ask him when this was going to happen?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: In other words, you didn't say anything after he said this to you?

THE WITNESS: I agreed with him that it should be done.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you think it might be helpful for your superiors in order to protect the policemen to know these details?

THE WITNESS: I felt that any information that would be furthered toward this statement, I would learn, and I would have adequate time to notify my superiors.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now you also testified that you understood, I believe, in a conversation with Jerry Rubin that Abbie Hoffman had had a meeting with the
Blackstone Rangers sometime prior to that time, and the Blackstone Rangers were coming into the park?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: As a matter of fact, it was the Blackstone Rangers who discovered you on Wednesday, isn't that correct?

THE WITNESS: That is true, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you see any Blackstone Rangers in Lincoln Park on Tuesday?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. WEINGLASS: How many did you see?

THE WITNESS: Very few. I saw none of what they refer to as the Main 21, or the principal members of the gang..

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you recall being asked the following question before the grand jury? "In other words, you were never able to observe anything that would lead you to believe that the Blackstone Rangers or any other sizable Negro group in fact joined forces with the hippies to help hold the park?"
Do you recall that question?

THE WITNESS: I would have to say that I do recall that question.

MR. WEINGLASS: Well, what was the answer you gave to that question?

THE WITNESS: The answer is "Absolutely not. There was no gang or group that I know of, of Negro residents of our city that did in fact join with those people."

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. That does not in any way whatever contradict his testimony. It is improper impeachment.

THE COURT: I strike the question and the answer, and direct the jury to disregard it.

MR. WEINGLASS: Officer Pierson, I think we are up to---going chronologically---Tuesday afternoon, August 27, late in the afternoon in Lincoln Park. There were a number of people assembled in the park for a rally, were there not?

THE WITNESS: There were different groups all over the park area, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did Jerry Rubin indicate to you that this was to be a rally of the Peace and Freedom Party?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, he did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did Jerry Rubin indicate to you that he was, in fact, a Vice-Presidential candidate for the Peace and Freedom Party running on a national ticket with Eldridge Cleaver?

THE WITNESS: No, he did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, who spoke?

THE WITNESS: I believe Jerry Rubin was the first to speak.

MR. WEINGLASS: Have you ever made a note of the speech?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I made notes of the speech.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you have these notes, Officer Pierson?

THE WITNESS: No, I do not. They were destroyed after my report was submitted.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you remember Jerry Rubin talking about the oppression of black people in America?

THE WITNESS: I think he did make reference to that, yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you remember Jerry Rubin saying these words: "We're not interested in protecting the privileges of the white race because white people in this country have been oppressing blacks for the past hundreds of years, and we're a white generation that says finally, 'No, you're not going to continue.' If the cops are going to beat on blacks, they're going to beat on us, too."
Do you recall Jerry Rubin saying words to that effect?

THE WITNESS: In essence, sir, yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: And do you recall Jerry Rubin expressing his criticism of the City of Chicago and the massive propaganda campaign that the City had engaged in to keep people away from the city and to reduce the size of the demonstration?

THE WITNESS: Some reference to that effect, yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: When you say "some reference," Officer Pierson, what do you recall, if anything, he said about this?

THE WITNESS: Well, some of the things you are saying, sir, is bringing back to memory Rubin's speech of that night, and it was, as I say, a lengthy speech, and I merely reflected the main points.

THE COURT: We are at a point, Mr. Weinglass, where we usually recess. . . .

MR. WEINGLASS: Mr. Pierson, when we stopped yesterday we were discussing the rally in Grant Park on Tuesday night, August 27, where you testified you heard Jerry Rubin deliver a speech to an assemblage and you also heard Bobby Seale deliver a speech to an assemblage, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: That is correct, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: I believe you gave us some description of that assemblage; however, I would like to ask you whether or not---and you are an experienced police officer---looking out at that crowd you would describe that group of people as being a dangerous group of people?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I would not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Would you describe that assemblage as an orderly gathering?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I would.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now you heard Jerry Rubin speak for a period of time. Was there any change in the mood of that assemblage?

THE WITNESS: Not that I noticed.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did the group become violent in any way?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, Officer Pierson, I am now going to direct certain questions to you concerning Mr. Seale's speech.
However, I would like to request the Court that I am not Mr. Seale's attorney, I am not questioning this witness with respect to the substantive counts against Mr .Seale. I am questioning him solely in my capacity as counsel for four of the alleged co-conspirator.

THE COURT: Mr. Weinglass, you may cross-examine this witness. You may ask any questions you think are proper. You are not permitted to designate on whose behalf you are asking the questions.

MR. WEINGLASS: I just wanted the record to show clearly that I am not acting as Mr. Seale's attorney.

THE COURT: Mr. Weinglass, we have, I think, the most competent official reporter in the United States Courts of this district. Everything you say and anybody says here is for the record. Please don't remind me constantly what you are saying is for the record.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, Officer Pierson, did you see Bobby Seale come to the park that night?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did Jerry Rubin have any meeting at all while you were in his presence with Bobby Seale on the evening of August 27?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, he did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now Bobby Seale arrived with, I believe you said, several of---in the company of several persons, some of whom you described as Black Panthers?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: In the course of this employment have you had occasion to familiarize yourself with the Black Panther Party?

THE WITNESS: Limitedly, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: Will you tell us what you know about the Black Panther Party?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please. That doesn't qualify.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection. I am not trying any defendant, as far as I can see here, named the Black Panther Party. We are trying eight individuals.

MR. WEINGLASS: I believe the defendant Seale was introduced to this jury by the prosecutor as the Chairman of the Black Panther Party. I have a right to clarify

THE COURT: He is not being tried as the Chairman.

MR. WEINGLASS: How long did Bobby Seale speak that night?

THE WITNESS: I believe his speech lasted anywhere from twenty minutes to a half hour.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you hear Bobby Seale talk about the black and white community forming a black and white coalition around Huey Newton's defense?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe he did.

MR. WEINGLASS: Is there any particular reason why you didn't tell the jury when you were telling the jury what you heard Bobby Seale say, why you didn't tell the jury about the black and white coalition that he spoke of?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: You indicated at one point in his speech Mr. Seale said words to the effect that, "People should buy .357 Magnums---"

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: "---and.45s."

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did he also say they should keep them in their homes?

THE WITNESS: I don't recall that being said.

MR. WEINGLASS: Officer Pierson, you are a police officer, and I ask you this question. Is there anything illegal about buying a .357 Magnum?

MR. SCHULTZ: I object to the last question.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: I ask you the same question about buying a shotgun. Is there anything illegal about that?

MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Weinglass knows that is equally objectionable, and yet he is asking that. I object and ask the Court to order Mr. Weinglass not to intentionally ask questions that he knows are not proper in law.

THE COURT: I sustain your objection to the last question.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did Bobby Seale ever call for the assassination of Mayor Daley in his speech?

THE WITNESS: The best that I can recall of his speech is that during the speech, he made mention of killing the pigs. He made mention of various political leaders. Whether he in fact mentioned Mayor Daley as one of those political leaders, I do not recall.

MR. WEINGLASS: But the only reference to killing the pigs is when he talked about self-defense, and a pig unjustly attacking us in an unjust manner, that we have a right to barbecue some of that pork as a matter of self-defense, isn't that the context and the only context in which he referred to the pigs?

THE WITNESS: That is what you have said, Mr. Weinglass. That is not what I have said.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now did you discuss Bobby Seale's speech with the FBI?

THE WITNESS: I believe I was asked about the Bobby Seale speech, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you recall telling the agents that Bobby Seale said that---Bobby Seale called on the group to kill Mayor Richard J. Daley?

THE WITNESS: Again, Mr. Weinglass, those are not my exact words. Whether I specifically mentioned Mayor Daley or not, I do not know, but I don't recall those being my exact words.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you recall having a second interview on September 27 wherein you were asked to comment about what Bobby Seale had said in Lincoln Park at approximately 6:30, August 27, 1968?

THE WITNESS: I was questioned by representatives of the FBI in the latter part of September.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you recall telling Agent Garrish on September 27 that Bobby Seale told the crowd, "When the opportunity arises, kill Mayor Richard J. Daley himself"?

THE WITNESS: No, I do not recall using those exact words.

MR. WEINGLASS: Is that all you said about what he said about assassinating leaders?

THE WITNESS: Well, his speech, as I said before, had the words "barbecuing pork, which in my interpretation is killing the pigs.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ever attend a Black Panther Party rally?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now in the front of your report, Officer Pierson, you have a list of common definitions, do you not?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Yippie slang, isn't it, so that your superiors will be able to interpret the Yippie slang that is in your report, the common everyday usage, right?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you also have a definition for Black Panther talk?

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you have any definition of what barbecuing the pork might mean?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, can vou explain to the jury why you did not contain any reference to Mayor Daley in your report of September 9, or any threat of an assassination to Mayor Daley and why you insisted on telling the FBI on two separate occasions very explicitly Bobby Seale called for the killing of Mayor Daley himself?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. He didn't say that, if the Court please.

MR. WEINGLASS: You and Jerry Rubin and a few people had dinner and then you came back to Lincoln Park, isn't that correct?

THE WITNESS: That is correct, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: How did things appear in the park when you got back?

THE WITNESS: Well, I got back and there was a pray-in, as they called it, being conducted. There were people walking around putting vaseline on their face,
there were people gathering different objects to throw it the police.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you see what occurred to that gathering of people later that evening when the police came into the park and gassed the people who were in the park?

THE WITNESS: Many things happened, Mr. Weinglass. Some people were throwing rocks and bottles and other objects at the police, and the police were advancing. They had a light truck, and there was gas shot into the crowd.

MR. WEINGLASS: Was there gas shot into the vicinity of the pray-in?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, where they were.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you see these policemen beat these people and club the ministers?

THE WITNESS: I do not remember any police officer hitting any member of the ministry.

MR. WEINGLASS: Was this one of the nights you were throwing rocks at the police yourself?

THE WITNESS: I don't recall having thrown a rock on Tuesday night at the police.

MR. WEINGLASS: Is it possible you might have thrown a can or stick, or some other object to provoke the police?

THE WITNESS: I threw a bottle of paint later on that evening.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you recall being asked by the grand jury the following question: "Mr. Pierson, did you ever observe, yourself, Jerry Rubin throw an object at the police?

MR. SCHULTZ: If the Court please, what he should do is ask him: "Did you see Jerry Rubin throw an object at the police?" If he says "yes," then he can read this question and answer.

THE COURT: It seems to me, Mr. Weinglass, those are two different situations.

MR. WEINGLASS: If your Honor please, I spent a good deal of time with this witness---

THE COURT: I have spent a good deal of time listening to you also. Do you want a gold star for the time you spent?

MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, I object to that, those insulting remarks to co-counsel.

THE COURT: I don't insult lawyers.

MR. KUNSTLER: Sir, you just have, your Honor.

THE COURT: Don't make a suggestion like that again, sir. if you will sit down, Mr.---

MR. KUNSTLER: Kunstler is the name, K-U-N-S-T-L-E-R.

THE COURT: I will let my ruling stand.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ever see Rubin throw an object at the police, Jerry Rubin?

THE WITNESS: At the police themselves, no.

MR. WEINGLASS: So when you testify that you saw Jerry Rubin throw a paint container at a police car, you were carefully drawing a distinction between throwing something at the police and throwing something at a car with police in it?

THE WITNESS: I definitely believe there is a difference, yes, sir.

MR. WEINGLASS: And when the grand jury asked you if Jerry Rubin ever threw anything at the police, you did not tell them about the police car incident, did you?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you ever see Jerry Rubin bring a sleeping bag to the park for the purpose of staying all night?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, I did not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did he ever attempt to stay and hold the park when the police came to the park?

THE WITNESS: Yes, we remained there Tuesday night and then when the police came and finally forced us about, we left.

MR. WEINGLASS: You left. People were fighting the police in the park?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: People were throwing things?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: People were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with the police?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: But Jerry Rubin was leaving?

THE WITNESS: Yes, as I was, because of the tear gas. We were running away from it.

MR. WEINGLASS: There was no attempt on his part to fight the police?

THE WITNESS: Not to fight, no.

MR. WEINGLASS: Or to throw anything at the police?

THE WITNESS: I did not see him throw anything at the police at that time.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now on Wednesday at approximately 3:00 p.m., in the course of the rally, you testified on direct about a flagpole incident, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. WEINGLASS: Officers moved in to the flagpole area for the purpose of arresting the individual who took the flag down, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: The individual or individuals, and retrieved the American flag.

MR. WEINGLASS: Was the flag taken all the way down?

THE WITNESS: I believe it ultimately was, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: Was the flag first lowered to half-mast?

THE WITNESS: I believe it was, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you know the flying of the American Flag at half-mast-do you know what signal that is intended to convey?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: At what point did you begin to move toward the flagpole?

THE WITNESS: When the crowd began throwing the objects at the police, then we moved over to watch what was happening.

MR. WEINGLASS: So Jerry Rubin, yourself and Stew Albert moved over to watch?

THE WITNESS: Yes, we moved in toward the crowd at that time.

MR. WEINGLASS: Then a police car appeared on the scene?

THE WITNESS: Yes, that is correct.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did the crowd part to let the car go through?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, they jumped on the car and started to rock the car and tried to tip it over.

MR. WEINGLASS: Did you jump on the car and try to tip it over?

THE WITNESS: I was right next to the back of the car.

MR. WEINGLASS: You had your hands on the car, didn't you, Officer Pierson?

THE WITNESS: I had my hands on the car, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: You were rocking that car, weren't you?

THE WITNESS: No, I was not.

MR. WEINGLASS: What were you doing with your hands on the car?

THE WITNESS: I just stood right there in the crowd so that I was not conspicuous.

MR. WEINGLASS: Jerry Rubin didn't have his hands on that car?

THE WITNESS: No, he did not. He at that time was yelling to kill the pigs, kill the cops.

MR. WEINGLASS: Were you trying to stop the rocking with your hands on the car?

THE WITNESS: Well, it happened so quick---I was not trying to rock it; I did not push on it to rock it. I was just right there. I, if anything, tried to stabilize it.

MR. WEINGLASS: Could you tell the jury what the crowd was yelling, if anything, if you heard anything as the car was going through the crowd?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. When the car went through the crowd, Rubin began yelling "Kill the pigs! Kill the cops!" And the crowd picked up the chant and hollered the same thing.

MR. WEINGLASS: When you left the park, you went to see a high-ranking police officer of the Police Department of the City, did you not?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did. I reported to Deputy Superintendent James Rochford.

MR. WEINGLASS: And then you went subsequently to the precinct, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. WEINGLASS: And your mission was over?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, it was.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, isn't it a fact, Officer Pierson, that your mission failed?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: No matter what you did during the course of the three days that you were with Jerry Rubin, you were unsuccessful in your attempt to
encourage him to even throw a pebble, isn't that correct?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, it is not correct. I never tried to encourage him to do anything like that.

MR. WEINGLASS: Wasn't it you who threw the rocks at the police and not Jerry Rubin?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: May I have the basis of the prosecutor's objection?

THE COURT: I have sustained the objection. I will let my ruling stand.

MR. WEINGLASS: Will the Court inform me of the basis of it since the prosecutor has not?

THE COURT: Just continue with your examination.

MR. WEINGLASS: Isn't it a fact that it was you who suggested that the park be held at night against the police to Jerry Rubin?

THE WITNESS: Absolutely not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Isn't it a fact that it was you who suggested that the Peace and Freedom rally be held in Grant Park to tie up the traffic?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, it was not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Wasn't it part of your mission to compromise the demonstrators by getting them into a position with the police whereby they would be committing criminal acts?

THE WITNESS: No, sir, it was not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Didn't you have a long discussion with the FBI about this very subject?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Objection, if the Court please, as to whether or not he had a discussion with the FBI on this subject.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Isn't it a fact, Officer Pierson, that because you never saw Jerry Rubin do anything improper or commit any criminal act, that you had to invent these private conversations which were unwitnessed that you have testified to?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, in response to a question asked of you by Mr. Kunstler about the possibility of your confinement in Wesleyan Hospital, I believe you answered you had not been in Wesleyan Hospital, am I correct?

THE WITNESS: No, Mr. Kunstler asked me had I ever been confined to the hospital at Wesley Memorial Hospital. I repeated his question and then I answered no, I had not.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, did you ever go to Wesley Hospital in the presence of and accompanied by a man by the name of Kloeckner for treatment during the year 1963 or 1964?

THE WITNESS: I recall your asking a question about a man by that name that I believe to be known as Mr. Gluckner. I did go over, I was taken over to the Wesley Memorial Hospital one evening for a short period of time and went home the same evening.

MR. WEINGLASS: Do you recall the reason for your going to the hospital that evening?

THE WITNESS: Sometime before that I had had an aerosol can explode and split my head open and split my nose and break the nose here. From that time I had had a few dizzy spells. On one occasion I happened to be in my father's office and I went down to my knees from one of these spells. He took me over to the Wesley Memorial Hospital to see if there was any problem.

MR. WEINGLASS: Now, from that time to the present have you received any additional treatment for the head injury?

THE WITNESS: I have had tests as a result of that, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: Were the nature of those test neurological or orthopedic?

MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. We don't have to go into this man's medical history to determine the results of a face injury. There is no basis for this.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: I have completed my cross-examination.
Your Honor, I would like to call the Court's attention to an oversight on my part. Mr. Seale is unrepresented and would like to conduct examination.

THE COURT: That is not true. Don't say that to me again. It is not true.

MR. SEALE: I would like to cross-examine the witness.

THE COURT: Your appearance is here on file.

MR. SEALE: What about my lawyer? He is not here, your Honor.

MR. WEINGLASS: His lawyer is Charles R. Garry of San Francisco.

THE COURT: I have heard that before.

MR. WEINGLASS: He is his attorney.

MR. SEALE: I still want to cross-examine the witness.

THE COURT: Call your next witness, please.

TRIAL TRANSCRIPT PAGE


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