The Doctor Trials: Transcript Excerpts

TESTIMONY OF FATHER LEO MIECHALOWSKI

[Excerpts from the testimony of Father Leo Miechalowski. Father Miechalowski was a Polish priest imprisoned by the Germans at Dachau concentration camp from 1940 to 1945. Nazi doctors at Dachau intentionally infected Miechalowski with malaria in order to determine the effectiveness of various anti-malarial compounds. Doctors at the camp also forced him to endure low temperatures to test the effects of hypothermia on the human body. This testimony is from National Archives Record Group 238, M887.]

Question: Now, father will you tell the Tribunal what happened to you after your arrest?

Answer: When I was arrested I was first kept in prison for two months and from there we were sent into a cloister and from there still other priests were assembled until about ninety priests had been assembled altogether, and from there were sent to Strutthof near Danzig into the concentration camp which was located there. And, from there on the fifth or ninth of February we were transferred to Sachsenhausen-Oranienburg which is located near Berlin. On the 13th of December 1940, we were transferred again to Dachau. I was confined in Dachau until the arrival of the Americans -- until we were liberated -- that was on the 29th of April 1945.

Q: Now, father, were you a political prisoner in Dachau?

A: Yes. I wore a red insignia which all those who had been arrested for political reasons had to wear this insignia.

Q: Now, father, did there come a time when you were experimented on the concentration camp at Dachau?

A: Yes. Malaria experiments and also on one occasion we were engaged in high altitude experiments.

Q: Did you say high altitude experiments, Doctor?

A: No, I said aviation experiments.

Q: And what do you mean by aviation experiments?

A: Well, I have said it because we were dressed in aviator's uniforms and then we were put into containers full of water and ice.

Q: Now, father, will you tell the Tribunal just what happened when you were experimented on with malaria? That is, when it happened and how you happened to be selected?

A: I was that weak that I fell down on the road because everybody was hungry in the camp. I wanted to be transferred to another assignment later on where we got some bread to eat between meals so my health could improve by the additional food. One man arrived and selected about thirty people for some easy labor. I also wanted to be selected for this assignment and those who had been selected for this work were led away. We went in the direction where the work was located and at the very last moment instead of going to the place of work we were lead to the camp hospital. We did not know what was going to be done with us there. I thought to myself that perhaps this was going to be some detail for easier work in the hospital. We were told that we should undress and after we had undressed ourselves our numbers were taken down and then we asked what was going on and they told us, smilingly, "this is for air detail." But we were not told what was going to be done with us. Then the doctor came and told us all to remain and that we were to be x-rayed. Now that our numbers had already been taken down we were supposed to go to our blocks. I sat for two days in the block and afterwards I was again called to the hospital and there I was given malaria in such a manner that there were little cages with infected mosquitoes and I had to put my hand on one of the little cages and a mosquito stung me and afterwards I was still in the hospital for five weeks. However, for the time being no symptoms of the disease showed themselves. Somewhat later, I don't exactly recall, two or three weeks, I had my first malaria attack. Such attacks recurred frequently and several medicines were given to us for against malaria. I was given such medicine as neo-salvasan. I was given two injections of quinine. On one occasion I was given atabrine and the worst was that one time when I had an attack, I was given so-called perifer. I was given nine injections of that kind, one every hour and that every second day through the seventh injection. All of a sudden my heart felt like it was going to be torn out. I became insane. I completely lost my language -- my ability to speak. This lasted until evening. In the evening a nurse arrived and wanted to give me the eighth injection. I was then unable [sic] to speak and I told the nurse about all of the complications I had had and that I did not want to receive the injection. The nurse had already poured out the injection and said that he would report this to Dr. Schilling. After approximately ten minutes another nurse arrived and said that he would have to give me the injection after all. Then I said the same thing again, that I was not going to have the injection. However, he told me that he had to carry out that order. Then I replied that no matter what order he had, I would not be willing to commit suicide. Then he went away and returned once again after ten minutes. He told me, "I know you know what can happen if you don't accept the injection." Then I said in spite of everything, "I refuse to receive a another injection and that I would tell that to the professor. "I requested that he himself know that I would not be willing to receive the injection. So that the nurse would not have any further difficulty after twenty minutes Dr. Ploettner came with four inmate nurses and he talked to my comrades. "There is going to be a big row here." Then I said, "If I have resisted for such a long time I will continue to do so." Dr. Ploettner, however, was very quiet. He only reached for my hand and he check my pulse, then touched my head and asked me what complications I had had. I told him what I had had after that injection. And then he told the nurse to give me two tablets in order to remove the headache and the pains in my kidneys. When I had been given that Dr. Ploettner was about to leave and told the nurses that they were to give me the rest of the injections. Then I said, "Hauptsturmfuehrer, I refuse to be given that injection." The physician turned around after I had said that and looked at me and said, "I am responsible for your life, not you." then when the injection he told the nurse -- the nurses complied with his order and it was then they gave me this injection. It was the same one to whom I had previously told that I did not want to have another injection. It was only strange that after the eighth injection no results happened as they had done previously so that, in my opinion, I think that the nurse gave me some other injection. On the morning I was given the ninth injection -- when I woke up in the morning the results were then as usual. I became sick and I began to feel cold and I had a high fever.

Q: Father, do I understand you to say that you were injected with malaria in the middle of 1942?

A: It was approximately in the middle of 1942 when I was infected with malaria.

Q: And you were not asked your consent to the malaria experiment?

A: No. I was not asked for my consent.

Q: And you did not volunteer for this experiment?

A: No. I was taken in the manner which I have just described.

Q: Did you make any protest?

A: In 1942 it was very difficult in the camp to lodge any protest. When I protested with this eighth injection which I was to be given, I clearly realized that it would have the most serious consequences for me. Later on such things could be risked, but in that year I still think that I would have been unable to do that, and I don't think it would have been to any avail.

Q: Now how many people were experimented on with you, that is, malaria experiments?

A: In the hospital when I had my attacks, there were approximately fifty to sixty people; the numbers changed.

Q: And do you know the approximate total number of inmates experimented on with malaria in Dachau?

A: Towards the end I heard that approximately one thousand two hundred prisoners were subjected to these experiments.

Q: Do you know whether or not any of those inmates died as a result of the malaria experiments?

A: Several have died, but if this was the direct result of malaria, I do not know. I know of one case when the patient died after having been given Perifere injections. Then I still know another priest who died, but afterwards -- and prior to his death he was sent to another room.

Q: Was it customary to transfer patients out of the block in which there were conducting the malaria experiments if it appeared that they might die?

A: It looked to me as if this patient of whom I have just spoken had been moved for the reason so it could not be seen that it happened in the case of malaria, but I do not know if people died as a result of malaria because I am not an expert on the subject.

Q: How many recurrences of malaria fever did you have, Father?

A: I cannot give you the exact number any more. However, those attacks recurred frequently, I think about five times, and then I still had treatment in bed for some time, and then there were several more, and altogether I had ten attacks, one every day. Then I reached a temperature of 41.6.

Q: Do you still suffer any effects from the malaria?

A: I still have had some after effects, but I do not know if this is only of malaria because I was also subjected to another experiment.

Q: Well, will you tell the tribunal about this other experiment?

A: During those malaria attacks on one occasion I was called by Dr. Prachtol and I was examined by a Polish physician, and Dr. Prachtol told me, "If I have any use for you, I will call you." However, I did not know what was going to be done with me. Several days later, that was on the seventh of October, 1942, a prisoner came and told me that I was to report to the hospital immediately. I thought I was going to be examined once more, and I was taken through the malaria station to block 5 in Dachau, to the fourth floor of block 5. There -- the so-called aviation room, the aviation experimental station was located there, and there was a fence, a wooden fence so that nobody could see what was inside, and I was led there, and there was a basin with water and ice which floated on the water. There were two tables, and there were two apparatus on there. Next to them there was a heap of clothing that consisted of uniforms, and Dr. Prachtol was there, two officers in Air Force uniforms. However, I do not know their names. Now I was told to undress. I undressed and I was examined. The physician then remarked that everything was in order. Now wires had been taped to my back, also in the lower rectum. Afterwards I had to wear my shirt, my drawers, but then afterwards I had to wear one of the uniforms which were lying there. Then I had also to wear a long pair of boots with cat's fur and one aviator's combination. And afterwards a tube was put around my neck and was filled with air. And afterwards the wires which had been connected with me -- they were connected to the apparatus, and then I was thrown into the water. All of a sudden I became very cold, and I began to tremble. I immediately turned to those two men and asked them to pull me out of the water because I would be unable to stand it much longer. However, they told me laughingly, "Well, this will only last a very short time." I sat in this water, and I had -- and I was conscious for one hour and a half. I do not know exactly because I did not have a watch, but that is the approximate time I spent there.

During this time the temperature was lowered very slowly in the beginning and afterwards more rapidly. When I was thrown into the water my temperature was lowered very slowly in the beginning and afterwards more rapidly. When I was thrown into the water my temperature was 37.6. then the temperature became lower. Then I only had 33 and then as low as 30, but then I already became somewhat unconscious and every fifteen minutes some blood was taken from my ear. After having sat in the water for about half an hour, I was offered a cigarette, which, however, I did not want to smoke. However, one of those men approached me and gave me the cigarette, and the nurse who stood near the basin continued to put this cigarette into my mouth and pulled it out again. I managed to smoke about half of this cigarette. Later on I was given a little glass with Schnaps, and then I was asked how I was feeling. Somewhat later still I was given one cup of Grog. This Grog was not very hot. It was rather luke warm. I was freezing very much in this water. Now my feet were becoming as rigid as iron, and the same thing applied to my hands, and later on my breathing became very short. I once again began to tremble, and afterwards cold sweat appeared on my forehead. I felt as if I was just about to die, and then I was still asking them to pull me out because I could not stand this much longer.

Then Dr. Prachtol came and he had a little bottle, and he gave me a few drops of some liquid out of this bottle, and I did not know anything about this liquid. It had a somewhat sweetish taste. Then I lost my consciousness. I do not know how much longer I remained in the water because I was unconscious. When I again regained consciousness, it was approximately between 8 and 8:30 in the evening. I was lying on a stretcher covered with blankets, and above me there was some kind of an appliance with lamps which were warming me.

In the room there was only Dr. Prachtol and two prisoners. Then Dr. Prachtol asked me how I was feeling. Then I replied, "First of all, I feel very exhausted, and furthermore I am also very hungry." Dr. Prachtol had immediately ordered that I was to be given better food and that I was also to lie in bed. One prisoner raised me on the stretcher and he took me under his arm and he led me through the corridor to his room. During this time he spoke to me, and he told me, "Well you do not know what you have even suffered." And in the room the prisoner gave me half a bottle of milk, one piece of bread and some potatoes, but that came from his own rations. Later on he took me to the malaria station, block 3, and there I was put to bed, and the very same evening a Polish prisoner -- it was a physician; his first name was Dr. Adam, but I do not remember his other name -- He came on official orders. He told me, "Everything that has happened to you is a military secret." You are not to discuss it with anybody. If you fail to do so, you know what the consequences will be for you. You are intelligent enough to know that." Of course, I fully realized that I had to keep quiet about that.

On one occasion I had discussed these experiments with one of my comrades. One of the nurses found out about this and he came to see me and asked me if I was already tired of living, because I was talking about such matters. But, in the way these experiments were conducted, I do not need to add anything further to it.

Q: How long was it before you recovered from the effects of those freezing experiments?

A: It took a long time. I also have had several (pause) I have had a rather weak heart and I have also had severe headaches, and I also get cramps in my feet very often.

Q: Do you still suffer from the effects of this experiment?

A: I still have a weak heart. For example, I am unable to walk very quickly now, and I also have to sweat very much. Exactly, those are the results, but in many cases I have had those afflictions ever since.

Q: Were you in good physical condition before you were subjected to Malaria and Freezing experiments?

A: Since the time of this starvation I weighed 57 kilograms in Dachau. When I came to the camp I weighed about one hundred kilo; I lost about one half of my weight. In the beginning, I was weighed, and I was in bed for about a week. And then my weight went down to forty-seven kilo.

Q: How much do you weigh now, father?

A: I can not tell you exactly but I have not weighed myself lately but I think at this time I weigh fifty-five kilogram.

Q: Do you know how you were pre-warmed in these freezing experiments?

A: I was warmed with these lamps, but I heard later that people were rewarmed by women.

Q: Do you know approximately how many inmates were subjected to the freezing experiments?

A: I can not tell you anything about this, because it was kept so secret; and because I was in there quite individually, and I was quite single during this experiment.

Q: Do you know whether anyone died as a result of this experiment?

A: I can not give you any information about that, either. I have not seen anybody. But it was said in camp that quite a number of people died there during this experiment.

TESTIMONY OF VLADISLAVA KAROLEWSKA

[Vladislava Karolewska, a former schoolteacher and member of the anti-German resistance in Poland, was arrested in 1941 by the Germans and deported to Ravensbrueck concentration camp near Berlin. At Ravensbrueck, Karolewska was forced to participate in bone regeneration experiments. She testified for the prosecution at the Doctors trial on December 22, 1946. Testimony from National Archives Records 238, M887.]

Q: Now, Witness, were you operated while you were in Ravensbrueck concentration camp?

A: Yes, I was.

Q: When did that happen?

A: On the 22nd July 1942, 75 prisoners from our transport that came from Lublin were called, summoned to the chief of the camp. We stood before the camp office, and present Kogel, Mandel and one person which I later recognized Dr. Fischer. We were afterwards sent back to the block and we were told to wait for further instructions. On the 25th of July, all the women from the transport of Lublin were summoned by Mendel, who told us that we were not allowed to work outside of the camp. Also, five women from the transport that came from Warsaw were summoned with us at the same time. We were not allowed to work outside the camp. The next day 75 women were summoned again and we had to stand before the hospital in the camp. Present were Schiedlauski, Oberhauser, Rosenthal, Kogel and the man in when I recognized afterwards Dr. Fischer.

Q: Now, Witness, do you see Oberhauser in the Defendants' dock here?

THE INTERPRETER: The witness ask for permission to go near the dock and to be able to see them.

MR. MC HANEY: Please do.

(Witness points to Dr. Oberhauser.)

MR. MC HANEY: And Fischer?

(Witness pointing to Dr. Fischer)

MR. MC HANEY: I will ask that the record show that the witness properly identified the Defendants Oberhauser and Fischer.

THE PRESIDENT: The record will show that the witness correctly identified the Defendants Oberhauser and Fischer.

I think at this time the Tribunal will take a recess for fifteen minutes. . . .

THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is now in session.

Q: Witness, you have told the Tribunal that in July 1942, some seventy-five Polish girls, who were in the transport from Lublin, were called before the camp doctor in Ravensbrueck?

A: Yes.

Q: Now, were any of these girls selected for an operation?

A: On this day we did not know why we were called before the camp doctors and on the same day ten of twenty-five girls were taken to the hospital but we did not know why. Four of them came back and six stayed in the hospital. On the same day six of them came back to the block after having received some injection but we don't know what kind of injection. We did not know what kind of injection. On the 1st of August those six girls were called again to the hospital; these girls who received injections, they were kept in the hospital but we could not get in touch with them to hear from them why they were put in the hospital. A few days later, one of my comrades succeeded to get close to the hospital and learned from one of the prisoners that they were in bed and their legs were in casts. On the 14th of August, the same year, I was called to the hospital and my name was written on a piece of paper. I did not know why. Besides me, eight other girls were called to the hospital. We were called at a time when usually executions took place and I was going to be executed because before some girls were shot down. In the hospital we were put to bed and the hospital room in which we stayed was locked. We were not told what we were to do in the hospital and when one of my comrades put the question she got no answer but she was answered by an ironical smile. Then a German nurse arrived and gave me an injection in my leg. After this injection I vomitted and I was put on a hospital cot and they brought me to the operating room. There, Dr. Schidlauski and Rosenthal gave me the second intravenous injection in my arm. A while before, I noticed Dr. Fischer who went out of the operating room and had operating gloves on. Then I lost my consciousness and when I revived I noticed that I was in a regular hospital room. I recovered my consciousness for a while and I felt severe pain in my leg. Then I lost my consciousness again. I regained my consciousness in the morning and then I noticed that my leg was in a cast from the ankle up to the knee and I felt a very strong pain in this leg and the high temperature. I noticed also that my leg was swollen from the toes up to the groin. The pain was increasing and the temperature, too, and the next day I noticed that some liquid was flowing from my leg. The third day I was put on a hospital cart and taken to the dressing room. Then I saw Dr. Fischer again. He had an operating gown and rubber gloves on his hands. A blanket was put over my eyes and I did not know what was done with my leg but I felt great pain and I had the impression that something must have been cut out of my leg. Those present were: Schildauski, Rosenthal, and Oberhauser. After the changing of the dressing I was put again in the regular hospital room. Three days later I was again taken to the dressing room, and the dressing was changed by Dr. Fischer with the assistance of the same doctor, and I was blindfolded, too. I was then sent back to the regular hospital room. The next dressings were made by the camp doctors. Two weeks later we were all taken again to the operating room and put on the operating tables. The bandage was removed, and that was the first time I saw my leg. The incision went so deep that I could see the bone. We were told then there was a doctor from Hohenlychen, Doctor Gebhardt, would come and examine us. We were waiting for his arrival for three hours lying on our tables. When he came a sheet was put over our eyes, but they removed the sheet and I saw him for a short moment. Then, we were taken again to our regular rooms. On the eight of September I was sent back to the block. I could not walk. The puss was draining from my leg; the leg was swollen up and I could not walk. In the block, I stayed in bed for one week; then I was called to the hospital again. I could not walk and I was carried by my comrades. In the hospital I met some of my comrades who were there for the operation. This time I was sure I was going to be executed because I saw an ambulance standing before the office which was used by the Germans to transport people intended for execution. Then, we were taken to the dressing room where Doctor Oberhauser and Doctor Schidlauski examined our legs. We were put to bed again, and on the same day, in the afternoon, I was taken to the operating room and the second operation was performed on my leg. I was put to sleep in the same way as before, having received an injection. And, this time I saw again Doctor Fischer. I woke up in the regular hospital room and I felt a stronger pain and higher temperature.

The symptoms were the same. The leg was swollen and the puss flowed from my leg. After this operation, the dressings were changed by Dr. Fischer every three days. More than ten days afterwards we were taken again to the operating room, put on the table; and we were told that Dr. Gebhardt was going to come to examine our legs. We waited for a long time. Then he arrived and examined our legs while we were blindfolded. This time other people arrived with Dr. Gebhardt; but I don't know their names; and I don't remember their faces. Then we were carried on hospital cots back to our rooms. After this operation I felt still worse; and I could not move. While I was in the hospital, cruelty from Dr. Oberhauser was performed on me.

When I was in my room I made the remark to fellow prisoners that we were operated on in very bad conditions and left here in this room and that we were not given even the possibility to recover. This remark must have been heard by a German nurse who was sitting in the corridor because the door of our room leading to the corridor was opened. The German nurse entered the room and told us to get up and dress. We answered that we could not follow her order because we had great pains in our legs and we couldn't walk. Then the German nurse came with Dr. Oberhauser into our room. Dr. Oberhauser told us to dress and come to the dressing room. We put on our dresses; and, being unable to walk, we had to hop on one leg going into the operating room. After one hop, we had to rest. Dr. Oberhauser did not allow anybody to help us. When we arrived at the operating room, quite exhausted, Dr. Oberhauser appeared and told us to go back because the change of dressing would not take place that day. I could not walk, but somebody, a prisoner whose name I don't remember, helped me to come back to the room.

Q: Witness, you have told the Tribunal that you were operated on the second time on the 16th of September, 1942? Is that right?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: When did you leave the hospital after this second operation?

A: After the second operation I left the hospital on the 6th of Oct.

Q: Was your leg healed at that time?

A: My leg was swollen up; caused me great pain; and the pus drained from my leg.

Q: Were you able to work?

A: I was unable to work; and I had to stay in bed because I could not walk.

Q: Do you remember when you got out of bed and were able to walk?

A: I stayed in bed several weeks; and then I got up and tried to walk.

Q: How long was it until your leg was healed?

A: The pus was flowing from my leg till June, 1943; and at that time my wound was healed.

Q: Were you operated on again?

A: Yes, I was operated on again in the Bunker.

Q: In the Bunker? That is not in the hospital?

A: Not in the hospital but in the Bunker.

Q: Will you explain to the Tribunal how that happened?

A: May I ask permission to tell something which happened in March, 1943, March or February 1943?

Q: All right.

A: At the end of February 1943, Dr. Oberhauser called us and said, "Those girls are new guinea-pigs"; and we were very well known under this name in the camp. Then we understood that we were persons intended for experiments and we decided to protest against the performance of those operations on healthy people.

We drew up a protest in writing and we went to the camp commander. Not only those girls who had been operated on before but other girls who were called to the hospital came to the office. The operated on girls used crutches and they went without any help.

I would like to tell the contents of the petition made by us. We, the undersigned, Polish political prisoners, ask Herr Commander whether he knew that since the year 1942 in the camp hospital experimental operations have taken place under the name of guinea-pig (das sind Meerschweine), as explaining the meaning of those operations. We ask whether we were operated on as a result of sentences passed on us because, as far as we know, the international law forbids the performance of operations even on political prisoners.

We did not get any answer; and we were not allowed to talk to the commander. On the 15th of August, 1943, a police woman came and read off the names of the ten new prisoners. She told us to follow her to the hospital. We refused to go to the hospital, as we thought that we were intended for a new operation. The police woman told us that we were going probably to be sent to a factory for work outside the camp. We wanted to make sure whether the Arbeitsamt was open because it was Sunday. The police woman told us that we had to go to the hospital and be examined by a doctor before we went to the factory. We refused to go then because we were sure that we will be kept in the hospital and operated on again. All prisoners in the camp were told to stay in the blocks. All of the women who lived in the same block where I was were told to leave the block and stand in line before the Block ten at a time. Then overseer Binz appeared and called out ten names and among them was my name. We went out of the line and stood before the ninth block in line. Then Binz said: "Why do you stand so in line as if you were to be executed?" We told her that the operations were worse for us than executions and that we would prefer to be executed rather than to be operated on again. Binz told us that she might give us work, there was no question of our being operated on but we were going to be sent for work outside the Camp. We told her that we must know that prisoners belonging to our group are not allowed to leave the camp and go outside the camp. Then she told us to follow her into her office, that she would show us a paper proving that we are going to be sent for work to the factory outside the camp. We followed her and we stood before her office. She entered her office for awhile and then went to the canteen where the Camp Commander was. She had a conference with him probably asking him what to do with us. We stood before the office a half an hour. In the meantime one fellow-prisoner who used to work in the canteen walked by us. She told us that Binz asked for help from SS men to take us by force to the hospital. We stood for awhile and then Binz came out of the canteen accompanied by the Camp Commander. We stood for awhile near the camp gate. We were afraid that SS men would come to take us so we ran away and mixed with other people standing before the block. Then Binz and the camp police appeared. They drove us out from the lines by force. She told us that she put us into the bunker as punishment; that we did not follow her orders. In each cell were put five prisoners although one cell was intended only for one person. The cells were quite dark; without lights. We stayed in the bunker the whole night long and the next day. We slept on the floor because there was only one couch in the cell. The next day we were given a breakfast consisting of black coffee and a piece of dark bread. Then we were locked again in this dark room. We were only troubled by people walking in the corridor of the bunker. The answer was given us the same day in the afternoon. The watch-woman from the bunker unlocked our cell and got me out of the cell. I thought that I was then to be interrogated or beaten. They took me and they went down the corridor. She opened one door and behind the door stood SS man Dr. Trommel. He told me to follow him upstairs. Following Dr. Trommel I noticed there were other cells, and those cells were with bed clothing. He put me in one of the cells. Then he asked me whether I would agree to a small operation. I told him that I did not agree to it because I had undergone already two operations. He told me that this was going to be a very small operation and that it will not harm me. I told him that I was a political prisoner and that the operation cannot be performed on political prisoners without their consent. He told me to lie down on the bed; I refused to so. He repeated it twice. Then he want out of the cell and I followed him. He went quickly downstairs and locked the door. Standing before the cell I noticed a cell on the opposite side of the Staircase, and I also noticed some men in operating gowns. There was also one German nurse ready to give an injection. Near the staircase stood a stretcher. That made it clear to me that I was going to be operated on again in the bunker. I decided to defend myself to the last moment. In a moment Trommel came with two SS men. One of these SS men told me to enter the cell. I refused to do it, so he forced me into the cell and threw me on the bed.

Dr. Trommel took me by the left wrist and pulled my arm back. With his other hand he tried to gag me, putting a piece of rag into my mouth, because I shouted. The second SS man took my right hand and stretched it. Two other SS men held me by my feet. Immobilized, I felt that somebody was giving me an injection. I defended myself for a long time, but then I grew weaker. The injection had its effect; I felt sleepy. I heard Trommel saying, "Das ist fertig", that is all.

I regained consciousness again, but I don't know when. Then I noticed that a German nurse was taking off my dress, I then lost consciousness again; I regained it in the morning. Then I noticed that both my legs were in iron splints and were bandaged from the toes to groin. I felt a strong pain in my feet, and a temperature.

In the afternoon of the same day a German nurse came and gave me an injection, in spite of my protests; she gave this injection on my thigh and told me that she had to do it. Four days after this operation a doctor from Hohenlychen arrived, again gave me an injection to put me to sleep, and as I protested he told me that he would change the dressing, I felt a higher temperature and stronger pain in my legs.

Q: Now witness, when was it that you were removed from the bunker after this operation?

A: Ten days after the operation performed in the bunker I was taken -- in the night time -- to the hospital.

Q: Well, that must have been around the latter part of August, is that right; August 1943?

A: Yes it was.

Q: Now, was another operation performed on you in September 1943?

A: About the 15th of September 1943 I was again taken to the operating room and a further operation was performed on my left leg.

Q: Now, in the operation in the bunker they operated on both legs, is that right?

A: Yes in the bunker I was operated in both legs.

Q: In the bunker operation, were your legs dirty the next morning after you woke up; that is, following the operation?

A: When I woke up after the operation that I underwent in the bunker, I noticed that my feet were dirty, covered with mud, that they had not been wasked before the operation.

Q: Who performed this operation around the 15th of September 1943 in the camp hospital, do you know?

A: The doctor from Hohenlychen arrived. I was taken to the operating room, I was given an injection, and an operation was performed on my left leg.

Q: Do you know the name of the man who performed the operation?

A: A German nurse told me that this was a doctor from Hohenlychen, assistant to the Chief doctor, whose name was Hartmenn--Dr. Hartmann. However, I don't know whether he actually performed the operation.

Q: Did the nurse tell you that Hartmenn was assistant to Dr. Gebhardt?

A: She told me only that this was a doctor, an assistant, from Hohenlychen.

Q: All right. Now, after this operation on your left leg the middle of September 1943, did they, several weeks later, operated on your right leg?

A: Two weeks later a second operation was performed on my left leg although pus was draining from my former wound, and a piece of shin bone was removed.

Q: Now, witness, I'm a little bit confused. I thought you said that on 15 September 1943 they operated on your left leg. I asked you if two weeks later they performed an operation on your right leg.

A: On 15 September 1943 my right leg was operated on, in spite of the wounds, and two weeks later my left leg was operated on.

Q: Now, do you say, witness, that they removed a piece of shin bone from you legs in these operations.

A: Yes, I do.

Q: Now, how long were you in the hospital after these operations in September 1943?

A: I stayed in the hospital six months. I was in bed. I could not stretch my legs. I could not move them. I could not walk either.

Q: When were you removed from the hospital?

A: At the end of February, 1944.

Q: Were you able to walk then?

A: I tried to walk at that time but couldn't walk.

Q: What sort of work did you do then?

A: When I arrived at the block I stayed in bed for a time and then I used to work knitting stockings.

Q: Have you received any treatment to either of your legs since you were liberated from Ravensbrueck?

A: No.

Q: Do you still suffer any effects from those operations?

A: I'm week, I have no strength to work and my legs get swollen up very easily.

Q: Witness, I am having handed to you two pictures. These are Documents Nos. 108 1A and 108 1B. Are these pictures taken of you here in Nurnberg?

A: Yes, they were.

Q: I submit these pictures as Prosecution Exhibit 211. Now, witness, will you please remove the shoes and stockings from both of your legs. Now, will you step out from behind the witness box and let the Court see the scars on your legs.

Now turn around once, please. Just turn around slowly. Thank you. Sit down now.

Were you ever asked to consent to any of these operations which you underwent at Ravensbrueck?

A: Never.

Q: How many times did you see Gebhardt?

A: Twice.

Q: I will ask you to step down and walk over to the defendant's dock and see whether or not you find the man Gebhardt in the dock.

(The witness complied and pointed to the Defendant Gebhardt)

Thank you. Sit down.

I will ask that the record show that the witness properly identified the defendant Gebhardt.

THE PRESIDENT: The record will show that the witness identified the defendant Gebhardt in the dock.

MR. MC HANEY: I have no further questions at this time.