DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

MR. DARDEN: MR. SHIPP, ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH THE DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I AM.

MR. DARDEN: HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN HIM?

MR. SHIPP: APPROXIMATELY 26 YEARS.

MR. DARDEN: AND DO YOU RECALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH YOU FIRST MET HIM?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DO.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT WERE THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES?

MR. SHIPP: UMM, WHEN I WAS ABOUT 16 YEARS OLD MY BROTHER, MIKE, PLAYED AGAINST O.J. IN HIGH SCHOOL UP IN SAN FRANCISCO, AND HE HAD COME DOWN TO LOS ANGELES RIGHT AFTER O.J. HAD WON THE HEISMAN TROPHY, AND MYSELF, MIKE AND MY BROTHER SKIP WENT OVER TO O.J.'S HOUSE AND CONGRATULATED HIM AND THIS IS WHEN I WAS 16 YEARS OLD.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU AND THE DEFENDANT DEVELOP A FRIENDSHIP AFTER THAT INITIAL MEETING?

MR. SHIPP: UMM, NOT -- WE WEREN'T VERY CLOSE AT THAT TIME. I HAD RUN INTO HIM FROM TIME TO TIME AND, UMM, EVERY TIME I WOULD SEE HIM HE WOULD ASK ME HOW WAS MIKE DOING, AND BUT WE WEREN'T REALLY THAT CLOSE AT THAT TIME.

MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, AS THE YEARS WENT ON, DID YOU DEVELOP A CLOSER RELATIONSHIP?

MR. SHIPP: I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY FROM ABOUT 1978 ON.

*****

MR. DARDEN: YOU WERE AN LAPD OFFICER?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I WAS.

MR. DARDEN: WHEN DID YOU JOIN THE LAPD?

MR. SHIPP: 1974.

MR. DARDEN: AND YOU ARE NO LONGER AN LAPD OFFICER?

MR. SHIPP: NO, I'M NOT.

MR. DARDEN: WHEN DID YOU LEAVE THE LAPD?

MR. SHIPP: I BELIEVE IT WAS OCTOBER OF 1989.

MR. DARDEN: YOU SAID THAT O.J. OR THE DEFENDANT TRUSTED YOU?

MR. SHIPP: YES, HE DID. I FELT HE DID.

*****

MR. DARDEN: WAS THERE A SECURITY GATE AT THE HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES, THERE WAS.

MR. DARDEN: DID IT REQUIRE A SECURITY CODE OR SOMETHING TO OPEN THE GATE?

MR. SHIPP: NO. TO MY KNOWLEDGE THERE WAS JUST A BUTTON THAT YOU WOULD PUSH.

MR. DARDEN: HOW ABOUT AFTER 1982? DID YOU CONTINUE YOUR RELATIONSHIP OR YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH THE DEFENDANT?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID. I DIDN'T GO BY THERE AS FREQUENT. ONCE I -- I TRANSFERRED DOWNTOWN AND MAYBE I WAS -- I WENT OVER THERE MAYBE ONCE EVERY MAYBE TWO, THREE WEEKS.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU CONTINUE TO PLAY TENNIS?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: ON THOSE OCCASIONS WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME, WHILE YOU WERE ON DUTY, DID YOU EVER TAKE OTHER OFFICERS TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME AS WELL?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID OTHER OFFICERS ALSO PLAY TENNIS?

MR. SHIPP: THERE WAS ONLY ONE -- THERE WAS ONLY OFFICER THAT I USED TO PLAY WITH. YEAH, THAT I RECALL, THERE WAS ONE OFFICER.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT IS THAT OFFICER'S NAME?

MR. SHIPP: CHUCK SMITH.

MR. DARDEN: AND IF YOU KNOW, IS HE STILL A MEMBER OF THE LAPD?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, HE IS STILL AT WEST L.A.

MR. DARDEN: DID OTHER OFFICERS ALSO VISIT THE DEFENDANT AT HIS HOME?

MR. SHIPP: TO MY KNOWLEDGE, UMM, NO, UNLESS THEY CAME OVER WITH ME.

MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, DID YOU TAKE OFFICERS TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME OTHER THAN CHUCK SMITH?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID. IF I WAS ON PATROL, SOMETIME I WOULD TAKE PEOPLE OVER THERE. I USED TO GET A KICK OUT OF NOT TELLING THEM WHERE I WAS GOING AND RINGING THE DOORBELL AND HAVE O.J. COME OUT AND GREET THEM.

MR. DARDEN: HOW MANY OTHER OFFICERS WOULD YOU SAY YOU TOOK TO ROCKINGHAM?

MR. SHIPP: WOW. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY APPROXIMATELY MAYBE -- MAYBE FORTY GUYS MAYBE.

MR. DARDEN: AND WERE THESE FORTY GUYS ALL MEMBERS OF THE LAPD'S WEST L.A. DIVISION OR STATION?

MR. SHIPP: UMM, MOST OF THEM. MOST OF THEM WERE.

MR. DARDEN: WAS THERE EVER ANY ANIMOSITY OR HOSTILITY BETWEEN THOSE FORTY GUYS THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED AND THE DEFENDANT?

MR. SHIPP: NO WAY. NO.

MR. DARDEN: DID ANY OFFICER GET THE DEFENDANT'S AUTOGRAPH?

MR. SHIPP: YES, A FEW OF THEM I GOT AUTOGRAPHS FROM O.J. FOR A FEW OF THEM. A COUPLE WERE WOMEN THAT I GOT AUTOGRAPHS FOR THEM AND THEIR KIDS, FEMALE PARTNERS.

*****

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER MEET NICOLE BROWN?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DO YOU RECALL WHEN THAT WAS?

MR. SHIPP: THAT WAS EITHER '79 OR '80. I'M NOT SURE.

MR. DARDEN: WERE THEY MARRIED AT THE TIME?

MR. SHIPP: NO, THEY WEREN'T.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER VISIT NICOLE BROWN AT ROCKINGHAM?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS?

MR. SHIPP: I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN SHE MOVED IN, SO WHENEVER SHE MOVED IN, UMM, PROBABLY ABOUT MAYBE ONCE A WEEK WHEN WE WERE ONCE AGAIN ON PATROL MOST OF THE TIME.

MR. DARDEN: OKAY. AND DID YOU CONSIDER NICOLE BROWN A FRIEND?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: AS YOU DID THE DEFENDANT?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DO YOU AND THE DEFENDANT REMAIN FRIENDS TODAY?

MR. SHIPP: I STILL LOVE THE GUY, BUT, UMM, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, THIS IS A WEIRD SITUATION I'M SITTING HERE IN.

MR. DARDEN: YOU SAY YOU STILL LOVE HIM?

MR. SHIPP: SURE.

*****

MR. DARDEN: NOW, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THESE OTHER OFFICERS EVER WENT BACK TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE ON THEIR OWN?

MR. SHIPP: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

MR. DARDEN: WERE YOU STILL A MEMBER OF THE LAPD DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, 1989?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I WAS.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU RECEIVE A TELEPHONE CALL FROM NICOLE THAT WEEK?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE DID.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO? SHE ASKED YOU TO DO SOMETHING?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE DID.

MR. DARDEN: AND THIS WAS DURING THE TELEPHONE CALL?

MR. SHIPP: YES, IT WAS.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU CALL HER OR DID SHE CALL YOU?

MR. SHIPP: SHE CALLED ME.

*****

MR. DARDEN: WAS SHE HYSTERICAL?

MR. SHIPP: NO, SHE WAS NOT.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER SHE ASKED YOU TO DO SOMETHING?

MR. SHIPP: I'M SORRY. WHEN I GOT OFF OF WORK I WENT OVER THERE.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, YOUR GOING OVER THERE, WAS THAT IN RESPONSE TO SOMETHING SHE ASKED TO YOU DO?

MR. SHIPP: YES, IT WAS.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT SHE ASKED YOU TO DO?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: YOU WENT TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME ON ROCKINGHAM?

MR SHIPP: YES, I DID.

*****

MR. DARDEN: AND HOW MANY DAYS AFTER JANUARY 1, 1989, WAS IT THAT YOU WENT TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE?

MR SHIPP: I THINK PROBABLY TWO.

MR. DARDEN: PROBABLY WHAT?

MR. SHIPP: TWO DAYS.

MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SO SOMEWHERE AROUND THE 3RD OR 4TH?

MR SHIPP: YEAH, RIGHT AROUND THE 3RD OR 4TH.

MR DARDEN: AND DID YOU SEE NICOLE BROWN AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT HER AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES. UMM, IF I REMEMBER, SHE HAD SOME INJURIES THAT HAD STARTED TO FADE.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT INJURIES DID YOU SEE AT THAT TIME, MR. SHIPP?

MR. SHIPP: IF I REMEMBER -- I MEAN, I COULDN'T SEE THAT WELL BECAUSE I REMEMBER SHE HAD MAKE-UP ON, BUT IF I REMEMBER THERE, WAS SOME SWELLING ABOUT HER HEAD SOMEWHERE. I REMEMBER IT WAS COVERED UP PRETTY GOOD.

MR. DARDEN: SHE HAD MAKE-UP ON?

MR. SHIPP: SHE HAD MAKE-UP ON.

MR. DARDEN: COVERING HER INJURIES?

MR. SHIPP: RIGHT.

MR. DARDEN: BUT YOU COULD STILL SEE?

MR. SHIPP: A LITTLE BIT OF IT.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT WAS HER DEMEANOR DURING THAT CONVERSATION?

MR. SHIPP: WHEN SHE FIRST STARTED OUT SHE WAS LIKE SHE ALWAYS WOULD BE WHEN WE WOULD TALK, SHE WAS KIND OF JOKING, AND THEN AFTER A WHILE SHE JUST KIND OF GOT INTO ACTUALLY WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND STARTED TELLING ME WHAT HAD HAPPENED BETWEEN HER AND O.J.

MR. DARDEN: DID SHE SHOW YOU ANYTHING AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: NO, SHE DID NOT.

*****

MR. DARDEN: AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE HOUSE WAS NICOLE BROWN THERE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE WAS.

MR. DARDEN: WAS THE DEFENDANT THERE?

MR. SHIPP: NO, HE WASN'T.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH NICOLE BROWN?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU SHOW HER THE PROFILE OF THE BATTERED WOMAN?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: THE VICTIM'S PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU DISCUSS IT WITH HER?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU DISCUSS WITH HER EACH OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE VICTIM'S PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH. I SHOWED THEM TO HER AND JUST WENT DOWN, YOU KNOW, AND WE READ THEM TOGETHER.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU ASK HER WHICH CHARACTERISTICS SEEMED TO APPLY TO HER?

MR. SHIPP: YOU KNOW, I REALLY CAN'T REMEMBER IF SHE ACTUALLY -- IF SHE ACTUALLY CAME OUT AND SAID, WELL, YEAH, THIS IS ALL ME. I REALLY CAN'T REMEMBER THAT. I DON'T RECALL HER ACTUALLY SAYING, YEAH, THIS FITS ALL ME. IT WAS -- IT WAS THE BATTERER'S THING THAT SHE FOCUSED THE MOST ON.

MR. DARDEN: SO SHE FOCUSED MAINLY ON THE BATTERER'S PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: RIGHT.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT BATTERER'S PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE DID.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU DO WHAT SHE ASKED YOU TO DO?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: WHEN WAS THE NEXT TIME THAT YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT?

MR. SHIPP: IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN LATER ON THAT WEEK.

MR. DARDEN: BY THE WAY, THE SECOND TIME THAT YOU VISITED NICOLE THAT WEEK, DID SHE SHOW YOU ANYTHING?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE DID.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT DID SHE SHOW YOU?

MR. SHIPP: SHE SHOWED ME SOME PICTURES.

*****

MR. DARDEN: WHO IS THE PERSON IN THE PHOTOGRAPH?

MR. SHIPP: NICOLE, NICOLE BROWN.

MR. DARDEN: THAT IS NICOLE BROWN?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, THERE'S NICOLE BROWN.

MR. DARDEN: THAT PICTURE WASN'T SHOWN TO YOU ON -- DURING THAT FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, 1989?

MR. SHIPP: NO, IT WAS NOT.

MR. DARDEN: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 10 FOR IDENTIFICATION, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

MR. SHIPP: NO, I DO NOT.

MR. DARDEN: WAS THAT PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN TO YOU?

MR. SHIPP: NO, IT WAS NOT.

MR. DARDEN: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 11, WHO IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

MR. SHIPP: NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.

MR. DARDEN: WAS THAT PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN TO YOU?

MR. SHIPP: NO, IT WAS NOT.

MR. DARDEN: YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS BEFORE?

MR. SHIPP: NO, THOSE WEREN'T THE ONES THAT SHE SHOWED ME.

MR. DARDEN: THESE ARE NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON SHOWED YOU DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, 1989?

MR. SHIPP: NO.

MR. DARDEN: SO THAT THE RECORD IS CLEAR, EACH OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICT NICOLE BROWN; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DARDEN: BUT YOU WERE SHOWN SOME PHOTOGRAPHS?

MR. SHIPP: I WAS SHOWN SOME PHOTOGRAPHS.

MR. DARDEN: AND WERE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS, PHOTOGRAPHS OF NICOLE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, THEY WERE.

MR. DARDEN: HOW MANY PHOTOGRAPHS DID SHE SHOW YOU?

MR. SHIPP: APPROXIMATELY FOUR, MAYBE FIVE.

MR. DARDEN: WERE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS POLAROID PHOTOGRAPHS?

MR. SHIPP: I REALLY -- I THINK -- I CAN'T REMEMBER. I THINK THEY MAY HAVE BEEN. NO, SHE TOLD ME SHE TOOK THEM OF HERSELF, SO I CAN'T REALLY REMEMBER IF THEY WERE POLAROID OR NOT.

MR. DARDEN: DO THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICT NICOLE'S FACE?

MR. SHIPP: THEY WEREN'T REALLY THAT CLOSE UP. THEY WERE MORE -- IF I REMEMBER, THEY WERE MORE OF HER BODY, THE ONES THAT I SAW.

MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WHAT PARTS OF HER BODY WERE DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

MR. SHIPP: I REMEMBER HER LEFT ARM STANDS OUT AND ALSO HER -- IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, HER LEFT -- LEFT UPPER THIGH.

MR. DARDEN: ANY OTHER PARTS OF HER BODY THAT YOU RECALL?

MR. SHIPP: THAT IS ALL I CAN REMEMBER.

MR. DARDEN: THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU SAW, SIR, OF NICOLE BROWN'S LEFT ARM AND THIGH, DID YOU NOTE ANY INJURY ON THOSE AREAS OF HER BODY?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT DID YOU SEE?

MR. SHIPP: THEY WERE LIKE BRUISES. BRUISES, YOU KNOW, DARKISH KIND OF BLUISH COLOR.

MR. DARDEN: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU WERE HAVING A DISCUSSION, THOUGH, ABOUT THE BATTERER'S PROFILE; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. SHIPP: CORRECT.

MR. DARDEN: WAS IT DURING THAT DISCUSSION THAT SHE SHOWED YOU THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

MR. SHIPP: YES, IT WAS.

MR. DARDEN: AND DURING YOUR DISCUSSION OF THE BATTERER'S PROFILE DID YOU AND NICOLE BROWN AGREE ON A SPECIFIC COURSE OF ACTION?

MR. SHIPP: UMM, YES, WE DID. THAT IS WHEN --

*****

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU INTEND TO PURSUE THE MATTER FURTHER?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT DID YOU TELL NICOLE BROWN YOU WERE GOING TO DO?

MR. SHIPP: THAT I WOULD MEET WITH O.J.

MR. DARDEN: FOR WHAT REASON?

MR. SHIPP: TO DISCUSS THE BATTERER'S PROFILES.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU MEET WITH THE DEFENDANT?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU SHOW HIM THE BATTERER'S PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: AND THAT PROFILE DOES LIST CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS OF A BATTERER; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, DURING THAT DISCUSSION DID YOU DISCUSS WITH HIM THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 1, 1989?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: RELATE TO US THE CONTENT OF THAT CONVERSATION, PLEASE.

MR. SHIPP: UMM, O.J. HAD SAID THAT THEY HAD GONE OUT THAT NIGHT, HE AND NICOLE, MARCUS AND KATHY, AND THEY HAD HAD A PRETTY GOOD TIME, THAT THEY HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK, THEY WERE PARTYING TOO MUCH, AND WHEN THEY GOT BACK, THEY GOT IN AN ARGUMENT.

MR. DARDEN: DID HE SAY WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH. I MEAN, HE SAID THAT THEY HAD BEEN KIND OF INTIMATE AND THEN THAT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT THEY STARTED ARGUING FOR THE MOST PART.

*****

MR. SHIPP: FROM WHAT HE TOLD ME, THEY WERE MAKING LOVE AND I GUESS NICOLE HAD WANTED TO STOP, FOR WHATEVER REASONS, AND THEY BEGAN TO ARGUE.

MR. DARDEN: DID HE TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

MR. SHIPP: I BELIEVE AT THE TIME HE TOLD ME THAT NICOLE WAS THE AGGRESSOR AND CAME AFTER HIM AND THAT HE WAS ACTING IN SELF-DEFENSE.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT DID HE SAY WHAT HE DID TO NICOLE IN SELF-DEFENSE?

MR. SHIPP: HE HAD TOLD ME WHAT HE HAD -- AT THE TIME THAT HE HAD -- WAS DEFENDING HIMSELF AND THEN PUSHED HER AWAY AND HE DIDN'T REALLY HIT HER.

MR. DARDEN: HE SAID THAT ALL HE DID WAS PUSH HER AWAY?

MR. SHIPP: AT THE TIME.

MR. DARDEN: DID HE SAY WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

MR. SHIPP: UMM, I THINK HE SAID, YOU KNOW, SHE GOT HYSTERICAL AND CALLED THE POLICE ON HIM.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU ASK THE DEFENDANT IF HE BEAT HER UP?

MR. SHIPP: NO, I DIDN'T. NOT AT THAT TIME I DIDN'T.

MR. DARDEN: OKAY. CONTINUE ON THEN WITH YOUR CONVERSATION YOU WERE HAVING WITH THE DEFENDANT REGARDING THE BATTERER'S PROFILE.

MR. SHIPP: OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED THEN IS WE WERE TALKING, AND AFTER HE EXPLAINED TO ME WHAT HAPPENED, THEN I TOLD HIM WHAT NICOLE SAID HAD HAPPENED, AND I TOLD HIM NICOLE HAD ADVISED ME THAT HE HAD HIT HER AND THAT AFTER LOOKING AT THE PROFILE SHE FELT THAT THEY ALL FIT HIM TO THE "T".

*****

MR. DARDEN: WHAT DID HE SAY?

MR. SHIPP: WELL, YOU KNOW, HE SAID HE LOVED NICOLE AND HE WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING TO HURT HER, AND IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS JUST AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, AT THAT POINT -- I'M SORRY, HE SAID WHAT?

MR. SHIPP: HE SAID IT WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU HEARD ON MONDAY, JUNE 13, THAT NICOLE BROWN WAS DEAD; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

*****

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE DEFENDANT'S HAND AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES. I NOTICED THAT HE HAD ONE OF HIS -- ON HIS LEFT HAND, I THINK ONE OF HIS FINGERS WAS BANDAGED, WHITE BANDAGE ON IT.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU POSE ANY QUESTIONS TO HIM AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES. I ASKED HIM HOW HE CUT HIS HAND, HOW HE CUT HIS FINGER.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT DID HE SAY?

MR. SHIPP: HE SAID HE DID IT IN CHICAGO.

MR. DARDEN: YOU SAID HE SAID HE CUT HIS HAND IN CHICAGO?

MR. SHIPP: YES, HE DID.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID THE DEFENDANT PREPARE TO GO UPSTAIRS TO GO TO BED?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, AFTER A FEW HOURS.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT DID YOU PREPARE TO DO AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: GO HOME.

MR. DARDEN: IF YOU KNOW, WHERE IS THE DEFENDANT'S BEDROOM LOCATED? WHERE IN THE HOUSE?

MR. SHIPP: UPSTAIRS LOCATED ON THE EAST -- FAR EAST SECTION OF THE HOUSE.

MR DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN THE DEFENDANT'S BEDROOM?

MR. SHIPP: I THINK MAYBE ONCE OR TWICE PRIOR TO THAT NIGHT.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, AS YOU PREPARED TO LEAVE THE DEFENDANT'S HOME, DID YOU WALK TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHERE WAS THE DEFENDANT AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: WALKING TOWARDS THE STAIRS.

MR. DARDEN: THE STAIRS LEADING UPSTAIRS TO HIS BEDROOM?

MR. SHIPP: UP TO HIS BEDROOM.

MR. DARDEN: AND DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU AT THAT TIME?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH. HE SAID, "RON, COME UPSTAIRS FOR A MINUTE."

MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU GO UPSTAIRS?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU GO UPSTAIRS WITH THE DEFENDANT?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU AND THE DEFENDANT GO TO A PARTICULAR ROOM?

MR. SHIPP: TO HIS BEDROOM, YES.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT YOU DID WHEN YOU ENTERED THE DEFENDANT'S BEDROOM?

MR. SHIPP: THE FIRST THING I DID AT HIS REQUEST WAS TO OPEN THE CABINETS WHERE HIS T.V. WAS.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT WAS THE DEFENDANT DOING WHILE YOU WERE DOING THAT?

MR. SHIPP: STARTING TO GET UNDRESSED.

MR. DARDEN: NOW, WHAT WAS HE WEARING INITIALLY?

MR. SHIPP: I THINK HE WAS WEARING A WHITE SHIRT AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT COLOR THE PANTS WERE.

MR. DARDEN: WAS HE WEARING PANTS?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, HE HAD PANTS ON.

MR. DARDEN: DID YOU WATCH THE DEFENDANT AS HE UNDRESSED AND PREPARED TO GET READY FOR BED?

MR. SHIPP: I MEAN I DIDN'T JUST STARE AT HIM. BUT I JUST -- I MEAN I WAS LOOKING AT T.V. AND WE WERE TALKING, YOU KNOW.

MR. DARDEN: ALL RIGHT. DID HE TAKE HIS CLOTHES OFF, HIS PANTS AND SHIRT OFF?

MR. SHIPP: YES, HE DID.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH THEM AFTER HE TOOK THEM OFF?

MR. SHIPP: HE FOLDED THEM AND I CAN'T REMEMBER -- I CAN'T REMEMBER IF HE HUNG THEM UP OR IF HE JUST LAID THEM DOWN, BUT I REMEMBER HE WAS VERY METICULOUS AS TO HOW HE WAS TAKING OFF HIS CLOTHES AND BEING VERY NEAT.

MR. DARDEN: AND HE'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY, HASN'T HE, I MEAN NEAT WITH HIS CLOTHES?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH. YES, HE HAS.

MR. DARDEN: SO WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE DEFENDANT NEATLY FOLDED HIS CLOTHES?

MR. SHIPP: HE BEGAN TO ASK ME A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

MR. DARDEN: WHAT WAS THE FIRST --

MR. SHIPP: NO. EXCUSE ME. I TAKE THAT BACK. THE FIRST THING HE SAID, HE TOLD ME WHAT THE POLICE HAD DONE WHEN THEY CAME OUT TO HIS HOUSE.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT DID HE TELL YOU THE POLICE HAD DONE WHEN THEY CAME OUT TO HIS HOUSE?

MR. SHIPP: HE SAID THAT THEY HAD GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING AND THAT THEY TOLD HIM THAT THEY HAD FOUND A BLOODY GLOVE, THEY TOLD HIM SOMETHING ABOUT A WATCH CAP, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THAT THEY HAD -- WHAT WAS IT? THAT'S ALL I CAN REMEMBER AT THIS TIME.

*****

MR. DARDEN: WELL, DID HE ASK YOU ANY QUESTIONS, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION?

MR. SHIPP: AFTER HE TOLD ME ABOUT WHAT THEY FOUND AT HIS HOUSE, HE ASKED ME HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE DNA TO COME BACK.

MR. DARDEN: AND AT THAT TIME, DID YOU KNOW THE CORRECT ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION?

MR. SHIPP: I DID NOT KNOW THE CORRECT ANSWER, BUT WHAT I DID SAY, I JUST OFF THE CUFF SAY TWO MONTHS.

MR. DARDEN: AND WHAT DID HE SAY IN RESPONSE TO YOUR INDICATION THAT IT TAKES DNA TWO MONTHS TO COME BACK?

MR. SHIPP: HE KIND OF JOKINGLY JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, "TO BE HONEST, SHIPP --" THAT'S WHAT HE CALLED ME, SHIPP. HE SAID, "I'VE HAD SOME DREAMS OF KILLING HER."

MR. DARDEN: DID HE SAY HOW MANY DREAMS HE HAD HAD OF KILLING HER?

MR. SHIPP: NO, HE DID NOT.

MR. DARDEN: DID HE SAY IT WAS MORE THAN ONE?

MR. SHIPP: HE JUST SAID DREAMS, PLURAL.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DOUGLAS:

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, IT IS TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN A FEW STATEMENTS ABOUT INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE CONCERNING THIS CASE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? SO DID YOU LIE WHEN YOU DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THAT DREAM?

MR. SHIPP: I SURE DID.

MR. DOUBLAS: YOU DID. OKAY. YOU'VE LIED A FEW TIMES, HAVEN'T YOU, SIR?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER IN COURT.

MR. DOUGLAS: BUT YOU'VE LIED A FEW TIMES CONCERNING WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT MR. SIMPSON, TRUE?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, I'D SAY.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU LIED TO MARCIA, DIDN'T YOU?

MR. SHIPP: WELL IF HOLDING BACK INFORMATION -- THEY NEVER ASKED ME ABOUT -- IF HOLDING BACK INFORMATION IS LYING. I DON'T THINK IT IS LYING. I JUST DIDN'T TELL THEM EVERYTHING.

MR. DOUGLAS: WELL, YOU DIDN'T TELL THE POLICE AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY ABOUT AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION THAT YOU CLAIM OCCURRED, TRUE?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, THE FIRST TIME -- WITHDRAWN. SOMETIME BEFORE TALKING WITH ME, YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH AN INVESTIGATOR WORKING ON MY BEHALF; DID YOU NOT?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: MR. JOE BROWN. RECALL THAT?

MR. SHIPP: OKAY. I WAS THINKING OF HOSTETLER. I'M SORRY. MR. JOE BROWN, I DID. YOU'RE RIGHT.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND YOU NEVER TOLD JOE BROWN ABOUT THIS SUPPOSED CONVERSATION WITH YOU AND MR. SIMPSON, DID YOU?

MR. SHIPP: NO, I DID NOT.

MR. DOUGLAS: SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU MET FOR 90 MINUTES WITH PHIL AND MARCIA AND BILL AND NEVER MENTIONED THIS CONVERSATION, CORRECT?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU MET FOR 25 MINUTES WITH JOE BROWN AND NEVER DISCUSSED THIS CONVERSATION, CORRECT?

MR. SHIPP: DID NOT.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU MET WITH ME IN YOUR ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR 45 MINUTES AND NEVER TALKED ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION, CORRECT?

MR. SHIPP: CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND YOU ARE MR. SIMPSON'S FRIEND AS FAR AS YOU THINK, CORRECT?

MR. SHIPP: YES.

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, YOU SAID THAT THE REASON WHY YOU DIDN'T TELL PHIL ABOUT THE CONVERSATION WAS BECAUSE OF WHAT?

MR. SHIPP: I SAID I DIDN'T TELL PHIL BECAUSE AT THE TIME, I REALLY DID NOT WANT TO BE REALLY INVOLVED IN ALL OF THIS AND I DIDN'T WANT TO BE GOING DOWN AS A PERSON TO NAIL O.J.

*****

MR. DOUGLAS: WHEN YOU TALKED TO MISS WELLER ABOUT THIS SUPPOSED CONVERSATION, DID YOU WANT TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS THEN?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: DID MISS WELLER INFORM YOU THAT SHE WAS WRITING A BOOK?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND DID SHE SUGGEST TO YOU THAT YOUR CONVERSATION WOULD BE IN THE BOOK?

MR. SHIPP: YES, SHE DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND DID YOU INTERPRET BY THE FACT THAT YOUR CONVERSATION WOULD BE IN THE BOOK THAT YOU WOULD NO LONGER BE ANONYMOUS?

MR. SHIPP: WELL, I FELT THE ONLY ONES THAT WOULD KNOW ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION WOULD BE ME AND O.J.

*****

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, YOU WERE A POLICE OFFICER FOR HOW MANY YEARS?

MR. SHIPP: 15 YEARS.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR 15 YEARS AS A POLICE OFFICER, YOU INVESTIGATED CRIMES I WOULD ASSUME.

MR. SHIPP: I DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND WOULD THERE BE OCCASIONS THAT YOU WOULD READ DESCRIPTIONS ABOUT EVENTS IN EITHER NEWSPAPERS OR BOOKS THAT WOULD ASSIST YOUR INVESTIGATION OF A PENDING CRIME?

MR. SHIPP: YES. I WOULD SAY YOU'RE CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: SO IT WAS NOT UNSUSPECTING OF YOU THAT IF SOME POLICE OFFICER WERE TO LATER READ ABOUT A CONVERSATION IN A BOOK CONCERNING A CONVERSATION THAT MAY HAVE OCCURRED WITH O.J. SIMPSON, THAT SOMEONE LATER WOULD INVESTIGATE THE SOURCE OF THAT CONVERSATION, TRUE?

MR. SHIPP: TRUE.

MR. DOUGLAS: SO YOU KNEW, MR. SHIPP, THAT BY HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH MISS WELLER, THAT YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ASSURE YOUR ANONYMITY, CORRECT?

MR. SHIPP: MR. DOUGLAS, I WOULD SAY YOU'RE PROBABLY CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: PRIOR TO THE BOOK BEING RELEASED, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO REVIEW A DRAFT OF THE MANUSCRIPT CONCERNING YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH MISS WELLER?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, I DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: HOW MANY TIMES?

MR. SHIPP: ONCE THAT I LOOKED IT OVER. ONCE.

*****

MR. DOUGLAS: IN YOUR MIND, WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR YOUR COMFORT THAT YOU BE ANONYMOUS?

MR. SHIPP: YES.

MR. DOUGLAS: IF YOU HAD NOT HAD A PROMISE OF ANONYMITY IN YOUR MIND, WERE YOU PREPARED TO SHARE INTIMATE SECRETS ABOUT MR. SIMPSON WITH A TOTAL STRANGER?

MR. SHIPP: MR. DOUGLAS, SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH STUFF, SOMETIMES THEY SAY THINGS THAT THEY REALLY WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW.

MR. DOUGLAS: THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION, SIR. MY QUESTION IS, IN YOUR MIND, WERE YOU PREPARED TO SHARE INTIMATE SECRETS ABOUT YOUR FRIEND TO A TOTAL STRANGER WITHOUT THE PROMISE OF ANONYMITY?

MR. SHIPP: OH, NO. NO.

MR. DOUGLAS: SO THE PROMISE OF ANONYMITY WAS THE REASON OR THE MOTIVATION FOR YOU TO SHARE INTIMATE SECRETS WITH YOUR FRIEND TO A TOTAL STRANGER?

MR. SHIPP: CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: HAVE YOU IN THE PAST SHARED INTIMATE SECRETS ABOUT A FRIEND TO SOMEBODY WRITING A BOOK?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER.

MR. DOUGLAS: NEVER BEFORE?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER.

MR. DOUGLAS: HAVE YOU IN THE PAST LIED TO POLICE OFFICERS ABOUT A MURDER INVESTIGATION?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU SAY THAT THE CONVERSATION WITH MR. SIMPSON WAS EATING YOU UP. IS THAT YOUR STATEMENT?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND DID YOU HOPE TO EXERCISE THIS PAIN FROM YOUR BODY BY TALKING TO SHEILA WELLER?

MR. SHIPP: YES, I DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU DIDN'T THINK THAT YOU COULD EXERCISE THIS PAIN FROM YOUR BODY BY TALKING TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT?

MR. SHIPP: WELL, AT THE TIME, I -- TRUTHFULLY, NO, I DID NOT. I DID NOT WANT TO PUT THEM IN A CERTAIN SITUATION KNOWING THEIR PROFESSION, HOW PROFESSIONAL THESE GUYS ARE.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU DIDN'T WANT TO PUT THE POLICE IN THE POSITION OF KNOWING INFORMATION THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT CONCERNING THE DEATH OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?

MR. SHIPP: WELL, I KNOW IF I WOULD HAVE TOLD PHIL, "OKAY, HEY, PHIL, CONFIDENCE, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO SHARE SOMETHING WITH YOU," THERE'S NO WAY IN THE WORLD PHIL WOULD HAVE SAID, "YEAH, RON, I'M GOING TO BURY THIS." SO I --

MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT YOU WERE HOPEFUL THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO GARNER SOME PUBLICITY BY MAKING UP FALSE ALLEGATIONS ABOUT MR. SIMPSON?

MR. SHIPP: NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL.

MR. DOUGLAS: DIDN'T YOU THINK, SIR, THAT BY CONCOCTING THIS STORY ABOUT MR. SIMPSON, IT MIGHT ENHANCE YOUR OWN PERSONAL PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: MR. DOUGLAS, I PUT ALL MY FAITH IN GOD AND MY CONSCIENCE. SINCE NICOLE'S BEEN DEAD, I'VE FELT NOTHING BUT GUILT, MY OWN PERSONAL GUILT, THAT I DIDN'T DO AS MUCH AS I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE.

MR. DOUGLAS: DIDN'T YOU THINK THAT BY BEING A WITNESS IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD ENHANCE YOUR OWN PERSONAL PROFILE?

MR. SHIPP: NO, SIR.

MR. DOUGLAS: AREN'T YOU AN ACTOR?

MR. SHIPP: SIR, I HAVE DONE SOME ACTING, YES, I HAVE.

MR. DOUGLAS: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. HOW MUCH ACTING HAVE YOU DONE, MR. SHIPP?

MR. SHIPP: I'VE DONE ALMOST -- A BUNCH OF BIT PARTS HERE AND THERE.

*****

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, IS IT YOUR VERSION THAT MR. SIMPSON TOLD YOU THAT THE POLICE SAID THEY HAD FOUND A GLOVE?

MR. SHIPP: YES. THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD ME.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND DID HE TELL YOU THAT THEY HAD FOUND A GLOVE WITH BLOOD ON IT?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH. THEY SAID THEY FOUND A BLOODY GLOVE. AND I DID LEAVE OUT ONE STATEMENT BECAUSE I DID -- WHEN MR. DARDEN WAS QUESTIONING ME, HE DID ASK ME WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN.

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, DID HE TELL YOU WHEN HE HAD BEEN TOLD THAT THE POLICE HAD FOUND THE BLOODY GLOVE?

MR. SHIPP: I CAN'T REMEMBER.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU KNEW BY THE TIME OF YOUR CONVERSATION THAT THE POLICE HAD HAD AN INTERVIEW WITH MR. SIMPSON?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, HE DID COME FROM DOWNTOWN, CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND YOU KNEW THAT MR. SIMPSON HAD VOLUNTARILY GONE DOWNTOWN, SPOKE TO THE POLICE, HAD GIVEN A STATEMENT?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: AND YOU KNEW THAT MR. SIMPSON HAD VOLUNTARILY RETURNED FROM CHICAGO TO LOS ANGELES UPON LEARNING OF THE DEATHS?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, IS IT YOUR VERSION THAT MR. SIMPSON TOLD YOU THAT THEY ALSO FOUND A CAP?

MR. SHIPP: IS IT MY VERSION?

MR. DOUGLAS: DID MR. SIMPSON TELL YOU THAT THE POLICE HAD TOLD SIMPSON THAT THEY HAD ALSO FOUND A CAP?

MR. SHIPP: THERE WERE TWO ITEMS. I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS A CAP AND A GLOVE.

MR. DOUGLAS: DID SIMPSON TELL YOU THAT THE POLICE HAD TOLD SIMPSON THAT THE POLICE HAD FOUND BLOOD IN THE CAR?

MR. SHIPP: YEAH, I THINK HE DID. I'M NOT SURE. I THINK HE DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: WELL, IF THAT STATEMENT WAS WRITTEN IN EXHIBIT 1000 --

MR. SHIPP: UH-HUH.

MR. DOUGLAS: -- THAT SIMPSON TOLD LEO THAT THE POLICE HAD FOUND BLOOD IN THE CAR, WOULD THAT STATEMENT HAVE COME FROM YOU SINCE YOU'RE LEO?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOUGLAS: DID SIMPSON TELL YOU THAT THE POLICE HAD TOLD SIMPSON THAT BLOOD WAS FOUND IN THE HOUSE, IN HIS HOUSE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, HE DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, IT'S YOUR POSITION THAT SIMPSON ASKED YOU ABOUT DNA EVIDENCE?

MR. SHIPP: YES, HE DID.

MR. DOUGLAS: DID SIMPSON ASK YOU ABOUT REGULAR BLOOD, SEROLOGICAL EVIDENCE AS WELL?

MR. SHIPP: NO, HE DID NOT.

MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT SIMPSON NEVER ASKED YOU ANYTHING ABOUT OR MENTION TO YOU ANYTHING ABOUT A CAP BEING FOUND?

MR. SHIPP: THAT HE NEVER MENTIONED IT TO ME?

MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT SIMPSON NEVER SAID ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT THERE BEING BLOOD FOUND IN THE CAR?

MR. SHIPP: NO, IT'S NOT TRUE.

MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT MR. SIMPSON SAID NOTHING TO YOU ABOUT BLOOD BEING FOUND IN THE HOUSE?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S NOT TRUE.

MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT YOU MENTIONED TO MR. SIMPSON THAT THE POLICE HAD FOUND THE GLOVE ON HIS PROPERTY?

MR. SHIPP: I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY FOUND IN THE HOUSE. NOTHING.

MR. DOUGLAS: DIDN'T YOU TAKE MR. SIMPSON OUT TO BEHIND THE GARAGE TO SHOW HIM THE AREA WHERE THE GLOVE WAS SUPPOSEDLY FOUND?

MR. SHIPP: THIS IS SAD, O.J., BUT NO. THIS IS REALLY SAD.

MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, MR. SHIPP, THAT FROM 8:15, THE TIME THAT MR. SIMPSON WENT TO BED, THROUGHOUT THAT ENTIRE EVENING, SOME MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY SAT WITH HIM IN HIS ROOM BECAUSE HE WAS SO GRIEF STRICKEN?

MR. SHIPP: THAT'S NOT TRUE. SHIRLEY ASKED ME TO GO STAY WITH HIM. SHE DIDN'T WANT O.J. TO BE ALONE. SHE SAID, "YOU STAY UP THERE WITH HIM, RON."

*****

MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, MR. SHIPP, LET ME CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND TALK ABOUT YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH MR. SIMPSON. WERE YOU AND HE CLOSE FRIENDS?

MR. SHIPP: I WOULD SAY WE WERE PRETTY GOOD FRIENDS. WE DIDN'T -- NEVER WENT OUT TO DINNER LIKE ON A REGULAR BASIS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

MR. DOUGLAS: DID YOU EVER GO OUT TO DINNER WITH HIM AND YOU, EVER?

MR. SHIPP: WELL, WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO HAVE ME HELP HIM GET BACK WITH NICOLE. HE WAS REAL --

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU AND HE WENT OUT TO DINNER?

MR. SHIPP: HE TOOK ME OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES.

MR. DOUGALS: WHERE DID YOU GO?

MR. SHIPP: ONE OF THE PLACES WAS RIGHT NEXT TO HIS OFFICE. I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S THE PIZZA PLACE OVER THERE.

*****

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU'RE NOT REALLY THIS MAN'S FRIEND, ARE YOU, SIR?

MR. SHIPP: WELL, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU WANT ME TO EXPLAIN IT, I GUESS YOU CAN SAY I WAS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, ONE OF HIS SERVANTS. I DID POLICE STUFF FOR HIM ALL THE TIME. I RAN LICENSE PLATES. THAT'S WHAT I WAS. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I LOVED THE GUY.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU WEREN'T THE KIND OF FRIEND THAT HE WOULD SHARE SOME PRIVATE SECRET WITH, WERE YOU, SIR?

MR. SHIPP: NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE 1989 BEATING WHERE HE NEEDED ME.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU KNOW THAT MR. SIMPSON IS AN AVID GOLFER, TRUE?

MR. SHIPP: VERY TRUE.

MR. DOUGLAS: EVER BEEN GOLFING WITH HIM?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER.

MR. DOUGLAS: EVER ASKED TO GO WITH HIM?

MR. SHIPP: NEVER. I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU DRINK A LOT, DON'T YOU?

MR. SHIPP: I USED TO.

MR. DOUGLAS: YOU'VE HAD A DRINKING PROBLEM, HAVEN'T YOU?

MR. SHIPP: IN THE PAST I HAVE.


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