June 16, 1893
Q. [By Mr. Jennings] You are the sister of Miss Lizzie Borden?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long have you lived at the home where you were living at the time of the murder, Miss Borden?
A. I think twenty-one years last May.
Q. Did your sister Lizzie always live there too with you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Yourself, your father, Miss Lizzie and Mrs. Borden?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know what property Miss Lizzie Borden had at the time of the murder?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Will you produce the evidences of it, if you have them with you?
[Various vouchers produced]
MR. KNOWLTON.All I want, Mr. Jennings, is the list. I raise the question as to its competency.
MR. JENNINGS. Oh yes. The District Attorney, your Honors, does not require me to make formal proof. As I understand it, he simply reserves his right to object.
MR. KNOWLTON.You may state it yourself. You need not trouble the witness.
MR. JENNINGS. Deposit, subject to check, of $170 in B. M. C. Durfee Safe Deposit and Trust Company. Deposit, subject to check, of $2000 in the Massasoit National Bank, Fall River. Deposit in the Union Savings Bank, Fall River, $500. A deposit of $141 in the Fall River Five Cents Savings Bank. Two shares of the Fall River National Bank, April 3, 1883. Four shares of Merchants' Manufacturing Company stock, date of certificate March 8, 1880. Five shares of Merchants' Manufacturing Company stock, date of certificate December 22, 1881.
Q. Did your father wear a ring, Miss Emma, upon his finger?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was or was not that the only article of jewelry which he wore?
A. The only article.
Q. Do you know from whom he received the ring?
A. My sister Lizzie.
Q. How long before his death?
A. I should think ten or fifteen years.
Q. Do you know whether previously to his wearing it she had worn it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did he constantly wear it after it was given to him?
A. Always.
Q. Do you know whether or not it was upon his finger at the time he was buried?
A. It was.
Q. Have you an inventory, Miss Emma, of the clothes that were in the clothes closet on Saturday afternoon, the time of the search?
A. I have.
Q. Will you produce it?
A. I have of the dresses.
MR. MOODY. Taken at the time.
MR. JENNINGS. No.
Q. When was that made up?
A. About a week ago.
Q. Was it made up from your recollection?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You were there on the afternoon of the search?
A. I was.
Q. Do you know what dresses were in there that afternoon?
A. I do.
Q. Will you state either from your own recollection or by the assistance of that memorandum what the dresses were?
MR. KNOWLTON.Wait a minute. I do not object to the question except as to the memorandum.
Q. Well, how many dresses were in there?
A. I can't tell you without looking at this paper.
Q. Well, can you tell us about how many?
A. Somewhere about eighteen or nineteen.
Q. And whose were those dresses?
A. All of them belonged to my sister and I except one that belonged to Mrs. Borden.
Q. How many of those dresses were blue dresses or dresses in which blue was a marked color?
A. Ten.
Q. To whom did those belong?
A. Two of them to me and eight to my sister.
Q. Were you there on the afternoon of Saturday while the search was going on?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know how minute or extended that search was?
A. I heard you say that every—
Q. You cannot say what you heard me say. Did you hear Dr Dolan or Marshal Hilliard? A. I asked Dr Dolan if they had made a thorough search—
MR. KNOWLTON.Wait a minute, madame, if you please. I pray your Honors' judgment as to that answer.
Q. What, if anything, did Dr Dolan say to you as to the character of the search which had been made?
MR. KNOWLTON.I object.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Court's recollection of Dr Dolan's testimony is that he testified to the character of the search. If you want to show anything different from what he testified—
MR. JENNINGS. I think I have a right to put it in—
The CHIEF JUSTICE. You may show it.
Q. Will you answer the question? [The last question was read.]
A. He told me the search had been as thorough as the search could be made unless the paper was torn from the walls and the carpets taken from the floor.
Q. Did you or Miss Lizzie, so far as you know, at any time make any objection to the searching of any part of that house? .
A. Not the slightest.
Q. Did you assist them in any way you could? .
A. By telling them to come as often as they pleased and search as thorough as they could.
Q. Now, then, Miss Emma, I will ask you if you know of a Bedford cord dress which your sister had at that time?
A. I do.
Q. Won't you describe the dress, tell what kind of a dress it was?
A. It was a blue cotton Bedford cord, very light blue ground with a darker figure about an inch long and I think about three quarters of an inch wide.
Q. And do you know when she had that dress made?
A. She had it made the first week in May.
Q. Who made it? .
A. Mrs. Raymond, the dressmaker.
Q. Where was it made?
A. At our home.
Q. What kind of material was it as to cost? Do you know what the price of it was?
A. Very cheap.
Q. Do you know, have you any idea what it cost?
A. It was either 12 cents a yard or 15 cents.
Q. About how many yards do you think there were in it?
A. Not over eight or ten.
Q. In what way was it trimmed?
A. Trimmed with just a ruffle of the same around the bottom, a narrow ruffle.
Q. How long were you in making the dress, do you know?
A. Not more than two days.
Q. Did you and Miss Lizzie assist the dressmaker in making the dress?
A. Yes sir.
Q. That was your habit, was it?
A. Yes sir, I always do.
Q. And where was the dressmaking carried on?
A. In the guest-chamber.
Q. Was that where the dressmaking was always done?
A. Always.
Q. Do you know whether or not they were painting the house at the time that dress was made?
A. I think they did not begin to paint it until after the dress was done.
Q. Do you know anything about her getting any paint on it at that time?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Where was the paint upon it?
A. I should say along the front and on one side toward the bottom and some on the wrong side of the skirt.
Q. How soon was that after it was made?
A. Well, I think within two weeks; perhaps less time than that.
Q. Now where was that dress, if you know, on Saturday, the day of the search?
A. I saw it hanging in the clothes press over the front entry.
Q. How came you to see it at that time?
A. I went in to hang up the dress that I had been wearing during the day, and there was no vacant nail, and I searched round to find a nail, and I noticed this dress.
Q. Did you say anything to your sister about that dress in consequence of your not finding a nail to hang your dress on?
A. I did.
Q. What did you say to her?
MR. KNOWLTON.Wait a minute. I pray your Honors' judgment as to that. That is clearly incompetent.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question may be answered.
Q. What did you say to her?
A. I said, "You have not destroyed that old dress yet; why don't you?"
Q. Is that all that was said?
A. All that I remember.
MR. KNOWLTON.I don't think, may it please your Honors, that answer should stand.
Q. What was the condition of that dress at that time?
A. It was very dirty, very much soiled and badly faded.
Q. Was this material of which this dress was made in a condition to be made over for anything else?
A. It could not possibly be used for anything else.
Q. Why?
A. Because it was not only soiled, but so badly faded.
Q. When did you next see that Bedford cord dress?
A. Sunday morning, I think, about nine o'clock.
Q. Now will you tell the Court and the Jury all that you saw or heard that morning in the kitchen?
A. I was washing dishes, and I heard my sister's voice and I turned round and saw she was standing at the foot of the stove, between the foot of the stove and the dining-room door. This dress was hanging on her arm and she says, "I think I shall burn this old dress up." I said, "Why don't you," or "You had better," or "I would if I were you," or something like that, I can't tell the exact words, but it meant, Do it. And I turned back and continued washing the dishes, and did not see her burn it and did not pay any more attention to her at that time.
Q. What was the condition of the kitchen doors and windows at that time?
A. They were all wide open, screens in and blinds open.
Q. Were the officers all about at that time?
A. They were all about the yard.
Q. Was Miss Russell there?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What do you do with your rags and pieces of cloth that you had this morning, or what did your sister do with those that she had? What was the custom?
MR. KNOWLTON.Wait a minute. I pray your Honors' judgment.
MR. JENNINGS. I will withdraw that question for a moment, with your Honors' permission.
Q. Did you or your sister keep a rag bag?
MR. KNOWLTON.Wait a minute—
A. We did not.
MR. KNOWLTON.I pray your Honors' judgment.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Excluded.
Q. What was done with the pieces of cloth, or pieces of old dresses, or old dresses that you had to dispose of?
MR. KNOWLTON.Wait a minute. I pray your Honors' judgment.
Q. Or that your sister had to dispose of?
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Excluded.
Q. What was the custom and habit of your sister in disposing of pieces of clothing or old dresses?
MR. KNOWLTON.I pray your Honors' judgment.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. Excluded.
MR. JENNINGS. We desire to save an exception to that, your Honor.
Q. Was anything said by Miss Russell in the presence of Miss Lizzie, in regard to this dress?
A. Miss Russell came to us in the dining room [Monday] and said Mr. Hanscom asked her if all the dresses were there that were there the day of the tragedy, and she told him "Yes," "and of course," she said, "it is a falsehood." No, I am ahead of my story. She came and said she told Mr. Hanscom a falsehood, and I asked her what there was to tell a falsehood about, and then she said that Mr. Hanscom had asked her if all the dresses
were there that were there the day of the tragedy and she told him "Yes." There was other conversation, but I don't know what it was. That frightened me so thoroughly, I cannot recall it. I know the carriage was waiting for her to go on some errand, and when she came back we had some conversation and it was decided to have her go and tell Mr. Hanscom that she had told a falsehood, and to tell him that we told her to do so. She went into the parlor and told him, and in a few minutes she returned from the parlor and said she had told him.
Q. Now at the time when Miss Russell said "It was the worst thing that could be done"- A. Oh, yes sir, she said that Monday morning. When she came into the dining room and said she had told Mr. Hanscom that she had told him a falsehood, we asked what she told it for, and [she] said "The burning of the dress was the worst thing Lizzie could have done," and my sister said to her "Why didn't you tell me? Why did you let me do it?"
Q. Now, Miss Emma, do you recall a story that was told by Mrs. Reagan about a quarrel between yourself and your sister? A. Yes sir.
Q. Was your attention called to the fact by me?
A. It was.
Q. How soon after it, do you know?
A. The morning following.
Q. That is, the morning the story was published in the paper?
A. I think so, yes sir.
Q. Now, Miss Emma, on that morning did you have any conversation with Miss Lizzie in which she said, "Emma, you have given me away, haven't you?"
A. I did not.
Q. And did you say in reply, "No, Lizzie, I haven't." "You have," she says, "and I will let you see I won't give in one inch." Was there any such talk as that?
A. There was not.
Q. Anything like it?
A. Nothing.
Q. That morning or any morning?
A. No time, not any time.
Q. Was there ever any trouble in the matron's room between you and your sister while she was there?
A. There was not.
Q. Any quarrel of any kind?
A. No sir.
Q. Or anything that could be construed as a quarrel?
A. No sir.
Q. Did Lizzie put up her finger and say anything about not giving in?
A. No sir.
Q. At any time?
A. No sir.
Q. Now when you went out did I say to you, "Have you told her all?" And you say, Everything"?
A. No sir; you did not.
Q. In order that there may be no mistake, Miss Emma, I would like to ask you again, who was it that said she had told a falsehood to Mr. Hanscom?
A. Miss Russell.
Q. Said she had told a falsehood?
A. She had told a falsehood.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
Q. [By Mr. Knowlton] On the day that this thing happened you were in Fairhaven?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long had you been in Fairhaven?
A. Just two weeks.
Q. And you were visiting?
A. Mrs. Brownell and her daughter.
Q. Had you seen Miss Lizzie during the two weeks?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When?
A. Well, I can't tell you what day it was. . . she had been at Fairhaven.
Q. Was it on her way over to or back from Marion?
A. Oh, I do know. She went to New Bedford when I went to Fairhaven, and I think it was the Saturday following our going Thursday.
Q. That is, she went to New Bedford the same day you went to Fairhaven?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long had you lived in that house, do you say? All your life-time?
A. No sir; I think about twenty-one years.
Q. Was any change made in the house when you began to occupy the whole house?
A. Two of the sleeping rooms downstairs were made into a dining room.
Q. You have lived there ever since?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Live there now?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And live there alone now?
A. Except with the servants.
Q. Had you any other near kin on your own mother's side, [in addition to Mr. Morse]?
A. We had other uncles and one or two aunts.
Q. Where did they live?
A. All but one live West. I have an aunt, Mrs. Morse, who is living now. She lives in Fall River. Her maiden name was also Morse. I do not visit her very often. My father had a great many cousins, one sister and no brother. The sister is Mrs. Harrington. She sometimes came to our house. Mr. Harrington did not, except to call at the door to inquire for my sister or for me. My stepmother had a half-sister in Fall River: Mrs. Whitehead. She owned half her house, and my stepmother the other half. My father bought the interest in the house and gave it to my stepmother. This was five or six years ago. I think he paid "$1500 for it.
Q. Did that make some trouble in the family?
MR. ROBINSON. Five or six years ago-I object.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. She may answer.
Q. Did that make some trouble in the family?
A. Yes.
Q. Between whom?
A. Between my father and Mrs. Borden, and my sister and I.
Q. And also between you and your sister and your stepmother?
A. I never said anything to her about it.
Q. If you will observe the question, I did not ask you that; it is a very natural answer, I find no fault with it. Did it make any trouble between your stepmother and Lizzie and you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you find fault with it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And did Lizzie find fault with it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And in consequence of your faultfinding did your father also make a purchase for you or give you some money?
A. Not-I don't think because of our faultfinding.
Q. Did he, after the faultfinding, give you some money?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How much?
A. Grandfather's house on Ferry Street.
Q. And was there some complaint that that was not an equivalent?
A. No sir. It was more than an equivalent.
Q. That it wasn't so productive of rent as the other?
A. I don't know what the other house rented for, but I should think that ours rented for more than hers.
Q. Were the relations between you and Lizzie and your stepmother as cordial after that occurrence of the house that you have spoken of as they were before? A. Between my sister and Mrs. Borden they were.
Q. They were entirely the same?
A. I think so.
Q. Were they so on your part?
A. I think not.
Q. And do you say that the relations were entirely cordial between Lizzie and your stepmother after that event?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Have you ever said differently?
A. I think not.
Q. Did your sister change the form of address to her mother at that time?
A. I can't tell you whether it was at that time or not.
Q. She formerly called her "Mother", didn't she?
A. Yes sir.
Q. She ceased to call her "Mother", didn't she, practically?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And wasn't it about at that time that she ceased to call her "Mother"?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Wasn't it five or six years ago?
A. It was some time ago.
Q. What address did she give her after that time?
A. "Mrs. Borden."
Q. And up to the time when she changed she had called her "Mother"?
A. Mostly.
Q. From her childhood?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And don't you recall that was sometime in connection with the transaction in relation to the house?
A. No sir, I do not know when it was.
Q. Do you say that you have not said that the relations were not cordial between your sister and your mother?
A. I don't remember that I have.
Q. You testified at the inquest, did you not?
A. I did.
Q. Were you asked questions in relation to that matter?
A. I don't remember what you asked me.
Q. Do you remember the answers that you gave?
A. Only two.
Q. Do you remember whether you answered the questions truly or not?
A. I tried to..
Q. Do you remember that I asked you if your relations were cordial between you and your mother?
A. I think you did either then or before the Grand Jury. I don't remember which.
Q. Do you remember you said that they were not?
A. I don't know whether I did or not.
Q. And do you remember that I then asked you if the relations between your sister and your mother were also cordial?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you still say that the relations between your stepmother and your sister Lizzie were cordial?
A. The last two or three years they were very.
Q. Notwithstanding that she never used the term "Mother"?
A. Yes sir.
Q. They remained cordial?
A. For the last three years they were.
Q. For how many years before that were they not cordial?
A. I can't tell you. I don't know.
Q. Now, I want to ask you if you didn't say this: "Were the relations between you and your stepmother cordial?" Answer: "I don't know how to answer that. We always spoke"? A. That was myself and my stepmother.
Q. Do you remember that answer?
A. I do now.
Q. "That might be, and not be at all cordial" Answer: "Well, perhaps I should say no then." Do you remember that, talking about your-self?
A. No sir, I don't remember it.
Q. "Were the relations between your sister and your mother what you would call cordial?" Answer: "I think more than they were with me." Do you remember that answer?
A. Yes sir.
Q. The next question is pretty long, "Somewhat more than they were with you, but not entirely so, you mean perhaps? I do not want to lead you at all. I judged from your answer you mean that, or don't you mean that? You say somewhat more than your relations were. Do you mean they were entirely cordial between your stepmother and your sister Lizzie?" Answer: "No."
A. Well, I shall have to recall it, for I think they were.
Q. That is, do you remember giving that answer?
A. No sir.
Q. How does it happen that you remember the answer in which you did not explicitly state whether they were cordial or not, but don't remember an answer, if one was given, in which you said they were not cordial, which was the following question?
A. I don't understand.
Q. That is a little involved perhaps. You do recall the question next preceding that in which you said "Somewhat more than they were with me"?
A. Not until you read it, I did not.
Q. You did recall it then?
A. Yes, I think I did.
Q. But when the next question, if I may assume to say so, was put to you, if it was put, and such an answer was given by you, you don't now recall that answer?
A. I don't seem to remember it.
Q. Will you say you didn't say that?
A. No sir, not if you say I did.
Q. And would you say that was not true-I haven't said you did at all, Miss Borden, if you will pardon me. Don't understand me as saying that you said anything, so that I think that answer is not pertinent to my question. Do you recall now that it is read to you saying that?
A. No sir, I don't.
[The stenographer read the preceding question and answer as follows. "Will you say you didn't say that? A. No sir, not if you say I did."]
The WITNESS. I don't say I didn't say it, if you say I did. I don't remember saying it.
Q. Do you understand me saying I do? Now, I do not say you did, and have no right to say you did. I haven't said anything about it. I am asking whether you gave that answer to such a question as that: "Do you mean they were entirely cordial between your stepmother and your sister Lizzie?" Answer: "No"? A. I can only say I don't remember giving it.
Q. Whether you said it or not, do you say that is true, that the relations were not entirely cordial between your sister Lizzie and your stepmother?
A. I think they were for the last three years.
Q. So that whatever you said then you say so now; you say that is so now?
MR. ROBINSON. Well, I submit—
MR. KNOWLTON.I don't press that question.
Q. Now I will read you this question and answer: "Can you tell me the cause of the lack of cordiality between you and your mother, or was it not any specific thing?" Answer: "Well, we felt that she was not interested in us, and at one time Father gave her some property, and we felt that we ought to have some too; and he afterwards gave us some." Do you remember that?
A. No sir.
Q. Is that true?
A. It was true at the time that he gave us the house.
Q. I will read another question: "That, however, did not heal the breach, whatever breach there was? The giving the property to you did not entirely heal the feeling?" Answer: "No sir."
A. It didn't, not with me, but it did with my sister after.
Q. Do you remember making any such distinction in your answer to that question?
A. I don't remember the question nor the answer.
Q. Neither one?
A. No sir.
Q. Miss Borden, do you know of anybody that was on terms of ill will with your stepmother?
A. No sir.
Q. So that you knew of no enemy that your stepmother had in the world?
A. No sir.
Q. The room that she occupied was the room directly over the sitting room?
A. No sir.
Q. Your sister Lizzie?
A. Oh, yes sir.
Q. That is what I mean. And the room that you occupied was the room adjacent to it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You were much the older?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Your room was very much smaller?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Had you previously occupied a different room?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Which room had you previously occupied?
A. My sister's room.
Q. Had you occupied it with her or had she occupied a different room?
A. She had occupied a different room.
Q. Which room had she occupied?
A. The one that I now have.
Q. When was the change made?
A. I don't know.
Q. How long ago, about?
A. I should think not more than two years.
Q. The room that you occupy was a room that had no exit excepting through her room? A. No sir.
Q. Was the change made at her request?
A. No sir.
Q. At your own suggestion?
A. I offered it to her.
Q. Was it in consequence of anything said by her?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you make any use of the guest chamber?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What for?
A. As a sewing room.
Q. Did you receive your friends there?
A. Oh, just as it happened. If it was someone we were very well acquainted with and we were in there sewing, we had them come up.
Q. And didn't you usually receive your friends there?
A. No sir.
Q. Didn't you usually receive Miss Russell there?
A. Very often.
Q. Miss Borden, how long has Bridget Sullivan been with you?
A. About two years and nine months.
Q. Did she have any duties upstairs, I mean in regard to your sleeping
room?
A. No sir.
Q. Who took care of your own room?
A. I did.
Q. Who took care of Miss Lizzie's room?
A. She did.
Q. And when there was anything to be done with the guest chamber, whose duty was it usually to take care of that?
A. Usually I did.
Q. Did Miss Lizzie have any particular duties about the housework?
A. She did anything that she cared to do.
Q. She had no particular duty assigned her?
A. No, I don't think of any.
Q. And you usually reached your bedroom by the front stairs?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And Miss Lizzie too, I suppose?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was the front door usually kept locked at night?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And bolted?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Who attended to that, if you know, usually?
A. The one that was retiring last.
Q. And who usually unlocked it in the morning?
A. Usually my sister.
Q. Have you ever caused any search to be made for the note that your stepmother was said to have received that day?
A. I think I only looked in a little bag that she carried down street with her sometimes, and in her workbasket.
Q. You didn't find it?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you caused any search to be made for the supposed writer of the note?
A. I think there was an advertisement put into the paper.
Q. By your authority?
A. Yes sir.
Q. In the News, wasn't it?
A. I think so.
Q. The News is a newspaper of large circulation in Fall River?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And it was there for some time, wasn't it?
A. I couldn't tell you I think several days perhaps.
Q. And did that notice also include a request for the messenger as well as the writer of the note?
A. I think that it did. It requested the one that carried it.
Q. Have you made any other search besides that?
A. No sir.
Q. You spoke, one time in your testimony, of getting Mr. Hanscom. Who was he?
A. A detective.
Q. Employed by whom?
A. By us.
Q. "Us" means whom?
A. Why, my sister and I.
Q. When?
A. I think the first time I saw him was the Sunday after the tragedy.
Q. Where did you see him then?
A. At our home.
Q. And was he at your house considerably?
A. No, I think not.
Q. From time to time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he remain in your employ any length of time?
A. I don't know how long.
Q. I would like an approximate idea. Was it two or three days or two or three weeks? Which is nearer?
A. Well, I should think nearer two or three weeks, but I am not sure.
Q. Have you seen the hatchet that has no handle?
A. No sir.
Q. You never have seen it?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know anything about any such instrument?
A. No sir.
Q. And you didn't know that there was one that was broken in the house?
A. Not until you asked me something about it.
Q. Where was that that I asked you?
A. Before the Grand Jury.
Q. Did any of the members of your family have waterproofs?
A. Yes, we all had them.
Q. What kind were they?
A. Mrs. Borden's was a gossamer, rubber.
Q. That is, you mean rubber on the outside?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And black?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Where was that hanging?
A. I think she kept it in the little press at the foot of the front stairs in the front hall.
Q. Did Miss Lizzie have one, too?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Where did she keep hers?
A. In the clothes press at the top of the stairs.
Q. What kind of one was that? A. Blue and brown plaid, an American cloth.
Q. And you had one too?
A. Mine was gossamer.
Q. Did you have yours with you in Fairhaven?
A. I did.
Q. Do I understand you to say that no interview whatever took place that had any foundation like what has been described by Mrs. Reagan, as you have heard it described? A. I mean to say there was nothing of that kind said.
Q. And there was no sitting silent for any length of time that morning?
A. I can't remember. I don't know.
Q. She said you remained seated in your chair, if I may be allowed to put it so, and she on the sofa with her back turned away from you, and you yourself remained an hour and a half. If I get the time right, did that take place?
A. I have no recollection of anything of that kind.
Q. Miss Russell was a friend of Miss Lizzie's, was she not?
A. Yes sir.
Q. An intimate friend?
A. No sir.
Q. A calling friend?
A. Yes sir.
Q. One that came to see her quite fairly often?
A. Yes sir.
Q. One that she went to see quite fairly often?
A. Yes sir.
Q. On excellent terms?
A. On good terms.
Q. No lack of harmony between them at all?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Were they also associated in church work together?
A. No sir, never.
Q. She and Miss Russell didn't go to that church?
A. Miss Russell went to that church, but they were not associated in church work at all.
Q. Miss Russell stayed with you three days after the Thursday?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Night and day mostly?
A. I think so.
Q. Slept in the house Thursday night?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did she sleep in the house Friday night?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you remember whether that was at anybody's request?
A. I can't tell you.
Q. And Saturday night?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did she stay there Sunday night?
A. I don't know. I think she did, but I am not sure.
Q. Do you recall what the first thing you said was when Miss Lizzie was standing by the stove with the dress?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What was it?
A. I said, "You might as well", or "Why don't you ?"-something like that. That is what it meant. I can't tell you the exact words.
Q. Wasn't the first thing said by anybody, "Lizzie, what are you going to do with that dress?"
A. No sir, I don't remember it so.
Q. Do you understand Miss Russell so to testify?
A. I think she did.
Q. Do you remember whether that was so or not?
A. It doesn't seem so to me. I don't remember it so.
Q. Why doesn't it seem so to you, if I may ask you?
A. Why, because, the first I knew about it, my sister spoke to me.
Q. That is what I thought you would say. Now, you don't recall that the first thing that you said to her, the first thing that was said by anybody was, "What are you going to do with that dress, Lizzie?"
A. No sir. I don't remember saying it.
Q. Do you remember that you did not say it?
A. I am sure I did not.
Q. Miss Russell was in the room, was she not?
A. I don't know. When I turned to hear what my sister had to say I saw Miss Russell, but she wasn't in the room with her then. She was in the dining room with the door open.
Q. The reason you don't think you said so was because you had previously spoken with your sister Lizzie about destroying the dress?
A. I don't understand your question.
MR. ROBINSON. Is that a question?
MR. KNOWLTON.Yes.
MR. ROBINSON. It don't sound like one.
MR. KNOWLTON.It is a habit I have, to do that. I do not put on the "do you." I am very glad to be corrected about it too.
Q. The reason you think you didn't say so was because you had previously spoken to her about destroying the dress?
A. Yes sir. I had previously spoken about it. I don't think I had thought of the dress all the time. I had spoken to her about it.
Q. Now, isn't that the reason that you say you didn't say that, that argument?
A. The reason that I say I didn't say so is because I didn't say so.
Q. You swear that you didn't say so?
A. I swear that I didn't say it.
Q. Did you just tell me that you didn't remember of saying it?
A. I did.
Q. Do you mean to put it any stronger than that?
A. I think I may truthfully.
Q. What has refreshed your recollection since?
A. Nothing; only thinking, I am sure I didn't.
Q. What sort of figure was it in that dress?
A. You mean shape?
Q. Yes.
A. Or color?
Q. Shape.
A. Well, I don't know how to describe it to you. It was about an inch long by about three quarters of an inch wide.
Q. Can't you give me any better shape of it than that?
A. It was pointed at the top and broader at the bottom than it was at the top.
Q. Sort of triangular?
A. Well, perhaps so.
Q. And that was a dark-blue figure?
A. I think one part of it was black or very dark blue and the other part a very light blue.
Q. That was a Bedford cord?
A. Yes sir.
Q. It was a cotton dress?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was the figure printed on it?
A. I suppose so.
Q. So that it was a print?
A. Yes sir.
Q. A print cotton dress of the style called Bedford cord is a proper description of it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And you said it was dirty?
A. Very.
Q. What sort of dirt was it on it?
A. Just as any dress would get soiled; it was very light and touched the floor or ground in walking.
Q. And had she worn it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And the last time she had worn it you said was some-what did you say?
A. I should say four or six weeks before I went away, but I am not positive.
Q. But she did wear it before that time?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was it a lightweight dress?
A. Yes, I think you would call it so.
Q. She had worn it. When she wore it what time did she so wear it?
A. Only in the morning.
Q. And had she worn it quite a number of mornings?
A. When she first had it she did, until it was badly soiled.
Q. After the paint was on it?
A. She wore it some after the paint was on.
Q. She got the paint on, if I understand you, immediately after she got it made?
A. I think within a week or two.
Q. Wasn't it within a day or two? A. I can't tell you exactly how early it was.
Q. And don't you recall that it was almost immediately?
A. It was very soon.
Q. Was it while the dressmaker was there?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long was the dressmaker there?
A. I think three weeks or a little over.
Q. Was it in the early part of the dressmaker's being there?
A. I don't remember whether the painting was commenced immediately or not.
Q. But notwithstanding the paint she wore it mornings?
A. She wore it some until the dress got soiled besides that.
Q. She wasn't interrupted in the wearing of it on account of the paint alone?
A. Well, she was, excepting very early in the morning.
Q. Did you see your sister burn the dress?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you remain in the room?
A. I did.
Q. Did you see Miss Russell come back again the second time?
A. I don't remember. I think she was wiping the dishes and came back and forth and I didn't pay attention.
Q. Did you hear Miss Russell say to her, "I wouldn't let anybody see me do that, Lizzie"?
A. I did not.
Q. Do you mean that you don't remember it or that it was not said?
A. I don't say it was not said. I say that I didn't hear it.
Q. And did you notice that for any reason your sister Lizzie stepped away after something was said by Miss Russell?
A. I didn't see my sister at all after she left the stove.
RE-DIRECT
Q. [By Mr. Jennings] You remained in the kitchen yourself all the time washing dishes?
A. I was.
Q. Then did you go to the stove?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know where this waterproof of Miss Lizzie's was on the day of the search?
A. Hanging in the clothes press that has been spoken of so often.
Q. Do you know where it is now?
A. It is there now.
Q. Been there ever since?
A. Every day since.