Thursday, June 16, 1921.
Ruth C. Johnson, Sworn.
Q. (By Mr. Williams) What is your full name?
A. Ruth Corinne Johnson.
Q. Where do you live?
A. West Bridgewater.
Q. Whereabouts in West Bridgewater?
A. Elm Square, North Elm Street.
Q. That runs out originally of Elm Square, as I understand it, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you married?
A. Yes.
Q. Your married name is Mrs. Simon Johnson?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just keep up your voice, please.
THE COURT. Keep up your voice so every man in the jury can hear you, Mrs. Johnson.
Q. How long have you lived there on North Elm Street?
A. About two years.
Q. How far from Elm Square is it that your house is located?
A. Well, I don't know-
Q. How many minutes' walk?
A. About three or four, if you walk fast, I imagine.
Q. In what direction from Elm Square is your residence?
A. Towards Brockton.
Q. North Elm Street runs from Elm Square to Brockton?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know what the name of that street is when it gets over the Brockton line?
A. Copeland Street, I think.
Q. Is it North Elm Street on the Bridgewater side and Copeland on the other?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was your husband's business on April 15th, or rather, May 5 of last year?
A. He was working in the garage at Elm Square.
Q. Did he run it himself?
A. Well, with his brother.
Q. Do you remember that day, May 5?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember what day of the week it was?
A. Wednesday, I think.
Q. Where were you that night?
A. I was home.
Q. Is there any railroad track near your house?
A. Yes, on the side of the house, it runs along the side.
Q. Is that a street railway track or steam railway?
A. There are both.
Q. Both?
A. Both.
Q. Where is the steam railroad?
A. On the right-hand side of my house.
Q. As you face the street, do you mean?
A. Yes.
Q. On which side of the street is your house?
A. On the left-hand side going towards Brockton.
Q. Well, suppose this is the street going to Brockton: your house is on the left-hand side going to Brockton?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the railroad track is on the right-hand side of your house?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there any street railway track there?
A. Yes.
Q. Where is that?
A. It faces the front.
Q. Where does that street railway track run?
A. To Brockton.
Q. Does that track go through Elm Square?
A. Yes, right through to Elm Square.
Q. Where were you on the night of May 5?
A. I was home.
Q. Home all evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was your husband that night, do you know?
A. He was home.
Q. Do you remember what time your husband went to bed that night?
A. Around nine o'clock.
Q. What was his state of health that evening?
A. Well, he wasn't feeling very good.
Q. Now, did anything happen that night out of the ordinary at your home?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. I shall exclude that question in that form. The question characterizes-"something out of the ordinary".
MR. WILLIAMS. I will put it in a different form.
Q. Did anything happen that night?
A. Well, at the door.
Q. What time did somebody knock at the door?
A. It was about twenty minutes past.
Q. What?
A. Nine.
Q. Did you go to the door, by any chance?
A. I went to the inside door leading into the entry.
Q. Had you gone to bed at that time?
A. No.
Q. What were you doing when the knock came?
A. I was sitting reading.
Q. And your husband was there?
A. In bed.
Q. What room were you in?
A. The front room, a bedroom it was.
Q. Both of you were in there?
A. Both of us.
Q. You went to the inner door?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you mean by that, there is a vestibule in your house?
A. Yes.
Q. Then what happened? Tell us, please.
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. You may go ahead, I will save your rights.
MR. MOORE. You will save us an exception, your Honor?
MR. McANARNEY. An exception for both.
A. I went to the door after I heard a knock, and asked who it was.
Q. What was said, I presume, is not competent at this stage, anyway. Did you open the door?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see someone there?
A. Do you mean after I opened the door?
Q. Yes.
A. No, not when I first opened it.
Q. Did you at any time after you opened the door see somebody?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you see someone?
A. Standing up by the bridge.
Q. Tell us a little more as to the location of the front of your house and the objects around it, will you, please, so we may understand where the bridge is?
A. The bridge is just before you get to my house.
Q. Coming from which way?
A. From Elm Square.
Q. Tell us what You did. I suppose you came to the door of your house-How big a house do you have there?
A. It sets down low; it is not a very large house. .
Q. Is it two, three, or one story house?
A. It is a one story house.
Q. Where is the front door?
A. Right in the center.
Q. In the center of the front of the house?
A. Yes.
Q. Suppose you stepped out here (indicating) in the front door of e to look around. Tell the jury what you see and where you it. Just tell us what the surroundings are.
A. There is a car track in front of it, and the bridge on one side. That is about all you can see.
Q. How big a street is it in front of your house, Elm Street?
A. It not very wide.
Q. Do you know how wide it is? Can you give us any idea? Will you point out in the court room the distance from your front door across Elm Street?
A. From my front door?
Q. I will ask your first, how far is your front door to the nearest side of North Elm Street?
A. About three yards and a half, about.
Q. Then, how far would it be from your front door to the further side of Elm Street?
A. About six yards, I imagine.
Q. Where is the car track you spoke of that runs on Elm Street?
A. On the further side.
Q. On the further side of Elm Street from your house?
A. Yes.
Q. Where is the bridge, as you stand in your doorway?
A. To my right, towards Elm Square.
Q. What kind of a bridge is that? I mean, is it a wooden bridge or stone bridge?
A. A wooden bridge, yes.
Q. I just want to get you to describe the surroundings to the jury, that is all. Is there any fence around the bridge at all?
A. Yes, there is on both sides.
Q. What kind of a fence?
A. Wooden.
Q. Board fence?
A. Board fence.
Q. Is there any pole anywhere around there?
A. Yes.
Q. Where is the pole?
A. There is one right at the corner of the bridge, on the same side as my house.
Q. As you look up, there is a wooden bridge with a pole on the end of it?
A. Yes.
Q. What color is your house?
A. Yellow and white.
Q. Now, as you came to the door there, did you see anybody?
A. Yes.
Q. You say you saw somebody where?
A. Standing by the pole beside the bridge.
Q. Do you know who that somebody was?
A. No.
Q. Now, did you see anybody else there?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, tell us what you did see, and what you did. Just tell us along in your own way, Mrs. Johnson. I simply wanted to get you to describe the place. Now, go ahead and tell us what happened.
A. I saw a man standing by the pole, and he walked towards me. I wondered if there was anybody with him and I looked and saw two more coming over the bridge on the car track. So, as the man by the pole came up to me, I didn't say anything at first and he didn't. When he got right up to me, I said my husband would be right out.
Q. Yes.
MR. MOORE. I object to what she said.
THE COURT. How is that competent, Mr. Williams?
MR. WILLIAMS. I understand that is a narrative, and therefore not in the hearsay rule, but something that transpired at that time-it is a verbal act.
THE COURT. Suppose it was, do you propose to show it was within the hearing of either of the defendants?
MR. WILLIAMS. I do, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. Then, I will admit it, subject to your right to have it stricken from the record if the connection is not later made.
MR. WILLIAMS. I understand the defendants were then present, and I agree it may be stricken out if it is not connected up.
MR. MOORE. We reserve an exception to its going in at this time, your Honor, without any foundation being laid.
THE COURT. I shall adopt the same rule adopted for Mr. McAnarney yesterday. I see no reason I should not adopt the same now, on the assurance the connection will be later furnished.
MR. McANARNEY. An exception for both.
Q. What did he say?
A. He didn't say anything to me, but he kind of called out "His wife."
Q. Called out his what?
A. Called out "His wife." The man was at the pole, when he came up to me, called out "His wife."
Q. The words, "His wife"?
A. Yes.
Q. In what tone of voice did he call that out in?
A. Not awfully loud, and not awfully soft-just called out "His wife."
Q. And where were those other two men you saw coming from the bridge at that time?
A. Walking on the car track.
Q. In front of your house?
A. Yes.
Q.Which direction were they going, Mrs. Johnson?
A. Towards Brockton.
Q. Now, will you tell us what happened from that time on?
A. Well, I stepped out of the door, and I started towards Brockton. These two men seemed to come right along with me, only on the other side of the street. I was on the left-hand side, and they were on the right-hand side. Then I went over to the next house.
Q. Well, did you see anything before you got over to the next house?
A. Yes.
Q. Just tell us what you saw?
A. There was bright light shining on to the bridge.
Q. As you came out of the door of your house, did you see anything more than you have already told us?
A. I saw the bright light, that is all.
Q. Just tell us about that, where it came from and what it was?
A. I saw a light shining, and there isn't any light near my house at all.
Q. You mean, no light?
A. No light.
Q. No street light?
A. No street light. I wondered where the light could come from, and I glanced towards Brockton and I saw a large light shining towards me, and I couldn't see what was behind it.
Q. From where?
A. Towards Brockton.
Q. On which side of the street?
A. On the side of the road.
Q. On your side of the road?
A. On the same side of the street.
Q. What did it shine on, or what did it light up, as it shone there?
A. Well, it lighted up the whole street and kind of the side of my house.
Q. Light up this pole you spoke of?
A. Yes, that was right on the corner of the bridge, the pole.
Q. You say you walked towards Brockton. Go-.ahead.
A. As I went by the motorcycle, I glanced up.
Q. Now, wait a minute. You say "the motorcycle". You haven't said anything about a motorcycle yet.
A. Well, the light was on a motorcycle.
Q. I want you to tell us what there was, and what happened. Now just keep cool, and go ahead quietly, and we will get along all right. You say there was a motorcycle there?
A. Yes.
Q. What connection did the motorcycle have with the light, if any?
A. I saw the light first, and as I went by I glanced up to see what the light was on, and it was a motorcycle.
Q. Where was the motorcycle?
A. On the side of the road, on the same side as my house.
Q. Anything near the motorcycle?
A. There was a man standing beside it.
Q. What kind of a motorcycle was it?
A. I don't know what kind it was, but it had a side car.
Q. Do you know which side of the motorcycle the man was standing on?
A. On the left.
Q. Which side of the motorcycle did you approach or go by?
A. On the right-hand side as it was facing me.
Q. Well, here is the motorcycle, and you say you were going towards Brockton?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, which side of the motorcycle did you go by, this side, or this side?
A. This side (illustrating).
Q. That is, the street side of the motorcycle?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, did you notice anything about that man as you went by?
A. Well, all I could see what his coat and hat.
Q. Did you see what kind of a coat and hat he had on then?
A. Machinaw coat.
Q. Machinaw coat?
A. Yes, and kind of a soft hat.
Q. What do you mean by a "mackinaw coat"?
A. One of those plaid coats with a belt, short.
Q. Made of what?
A. Why, I don't know. Just like any other mackinaw coat.
Q. Cloth coat, or fur, or what?
A. Yes. Cloth.
Q. Could you tell what color of machinaw coat it was at that time?
A. It looked like a plaid, dark plaid.
Q. Where were these other two men when you went by the man with the motorcycle?
A. Right opposite me.
Q. Now, go ahead from there and tell the jury what you did?
A. I passed the motorcycle and kept walking until I got to the next house. There is a big driveway there.
Q. Where were those other men that you spoke of?
A. They walked right along with me.
Q. How far away from you were they, Mrs. Johnson?
A. About three yards and a half.
Q. You were walking along the road?
A. Yes.
Q. On what part of the road?
A. On the left-hand side going towards Brockton.
Q. On which side of you were these men walking?
A. On the right.
Q. You came up to the next house, you say, where there was a driveway?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is the name of the family that lives in the next house?
A. Bartlett.
Q. What did you do when you got to the Bartlett house?
A. I knocked at the door.
Q. What did you do then?
MR. MOORE. I object, your Honor.
THE COURT. You may proceed.
A. I knocked at the door.
MR. MOORE. You will save us an exception?
THE COURT. Certainly.
MR. McANARNEY. An exception.
A. I knocked at the door, and somebody opened the door.
Q. You need not say what talk you had then, unless you were where the defendants- Well, I won't put it that way. Where were these two men when you went into the Bartlett house?
A. They were right opposite me on the car track.
Q. How far away were they when you went into the Bartlett house itself, when you went into the house?
A. I couldn't tell that.
Q. Were they in hearing distance at that time?
A. No, no.
MR. McANARNEY. What is the answer?
THE STENOGRAPHER. "No, no".
Q. You did go into the Bartlett house?
A. I did.
Q. When you went into the Bartlett house, did you do anything in reference to the Bridgewater police?
MR. MOORE. I object.
MR. WILLIAMS. I will put it in this form.
Q. What did you do after you went into the Bartlett house? A. I telephoned.
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. You may inquire, "What did you do?"
A. I telephoned.
MR. MOORE. I will reserve an exception,
MR. McANARNEY. Exception.
Q. To whom?
A. West Bridgewater police.
MR. McANARNEY. Your Honor will note an exception?
THE COURT. Certainly.
Q. Did you later come out of the Bartlett house?
A. Yes.
Q. How long were you in the Bartlett house before you came out?
A. I imagine about ten minutes.
Q. What did you do then, Mrs. Johnson?
THE COURT. It is distinctly understood that this talk over the telephone is admitted simply as a fact. Of course, the conversation that took place is not competent.
MR. WILLIAMS. I have not asked it, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. I want that distinctly understood.
Q. Now, after you came out, Mrs. Johnson, what did you do?
A. I walked down the driveway, and as I got to the end of the driveway two men walked alongside of me.
Q. What two men?
A. The same that followed me up.
Q. Where were they when you got down to the end of the driveway?
A. They seemed to walk right along with me.
Q. What did you do from that point on?
A. I walked along.
Q. Which side of the street did you walk along?
A. The right, going towards my house.
Q. Is that the same side of the street you had come up?
A. Yes, the same side.
Q. I forgot to ask, is the Bartlett house on the same side of the street as your house?
A. The same side.
Q. And as you walked along on the same side going back, what did you notice about the two men?
A. I could see them plain. They were on the car track.
Q. What were they doing?
A. Just walking along as I did.
Q. Did you notice anything about the motorcycle as you went back towards your house?
A. Yes.
Q. Tell us what you did notice about that?
A. It had turned towards Brockton on the car track side, and the light was shining right in my face, and the two men that were walking with me.
Q. You say it turned towards Brockton on the car track side?
A. Yes.
Q. Which side had it been on, did you say, when you went up to the Bartlett house?
A. On the right, going towards Elm Square.
Q. Now, which side was it on when you went back towards your house?
A. On the right going towards Brockton.
Q. On the opposite side?
A. Yes.
Q. You say the light was shining in your face and on the other two men?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, what happened as you went along there going back to the house?
A. As I got up to the motorcycle I heard it was running. Then I saw the two men stop.
Q. Stop where?
A. At the motorcycle.
Q. Could you see them at that time?
MR. MOORE. I object. There is no designation of persons here. When she says "two men",-
THE COURT. I understood that the evidence-that there is to be evidence offered tending to prove that these two defendants were there. Am I right, Mr. Williams?
MR. WILLIAMS. Yes.
MR. MOORE. But, there is no testimony here. The relationship after the- It is very ambiguous-this method of designation.
THE COURT. That may be a fair suggestion. Do I understand these two men about whom you are testifying, or about whom the witness is testifying, in going up to the Bartlett place and returning, are the two defendants?
MR. WILLIAMS. I had to get them back into the motorcycle light before I could identify them, if your Honor please. That is why I went along this way.
THE COURT. I didn't ask you what you had to do; I asked you if you have evidence
MR. MOORE. I object to these statements of evidence, your Honor, the statement that counsel just made that he had to get back to the light of the motorcycle before he could identify them is a unique way of presenting evidence.
THE COURT. Counsel vary,. I notice, as to their method of putting in evidence. You may proceed.
Q. Could you see them at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, where were they then?
A. Side of the motorcycle.
Q. Was there a man with them by the motorcycle?
A. Yes.
Q. How many men there?
A. There were three all together.
Q. By the motorcycle?
A. By the motorcycle.
Q. Now could you see the faces or appearance of any of those men there by the motorcycle there at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, will you describe to the jury the appearance of any of the men there at the motorcycle that you then saw? Take them one by one, if there was more than one that you could see?
A. Well, he was short-
Q. Which one?
A. The one that I saw most of all.
Q. Yes.
A. He was short, and his face was kind of blue, as though he had just shaved. He had an overcoat and a derby. That is all I can say.
Q. Can you tell anything about his age or his weight?
A. No.
Q. Did you know what his name was at that time?
A. No.
Q. Did You ever see that man You have just described after that?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you see him after that?
A. At the Brockton police station.
Q. When?
A. The next night.
Q. The next night?
A. Yes.
Q. What time the next night, do you remember?
A. I think I got up to the police station about half past seven.
Q. Anybody with you?
A. My husband.
Q. Whereabouts did you see that man the next night? Whereabouts in the police station, I mean?
A. Well, the first time I saw him was when he came up the stairs, when they were bringing him up. I recognized him right away.
Q. Now, do you see that man you saw on North Elm Street with the motorcycle, and you later saw in the Brockton police station, here in court today?
A. Yes.
Q. And where do you see him?
A. Right there.
Q. Just point, please.
A. Right there, on this side.
Q. Speak up a little bit. You say "on this side", and where?
A. In the cate there.
Q. The man with the moustache, or the man without a moustache?
A. Without.
Q. Do you know what his name is now?
A. Sacco.
Q. Are you sure he is the man you saw that night?
A. Positive.
Q. Now, can you describe any other man who was there?
A. Only that he was a little taller.
Q. Which man are you speaking of now?
A. The man that was with him, they were walking along the car track.
Q. You have described Sacco. Now, describe the other one, if you can.
A. I didn't see him. He was on the other side.
Q. Tell us anything you did see about him.
A. He had a long over-coat and soft hat, that is all I could see.
Q. What can you tell us about his height?
A. He was taller than the other man.
Q. Now, could you see the man with the motorcycle?
A. No.
Q. Did you see him at any time that night, the man on the motorcycle?
A. Well, just his coat and hat, that is all.
Q. Tell us what kind of a coat and hat he had on when you saw him that second time. I mean, as you came down towards your house and the three were together there.
A. He had a mackinaw coat, and soft hat pulled down over his face.
Q. Now, did you see that man afterwards?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you see him?
A. At the Brockton police-
MR. MOORE. I assume now you are referring to persons other than the defendants?
THE COURT. I don't know. What is the fact?
MR. WILLIAMS. This is a man who is not one of the defendants, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. Well, wherein is that competent?
MR. WILLIAMS. I wish to show at the present time who was in the company of the defendants at that time, if your Honor please.
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. The four men who were there?
MR. WILLIAMS. The four men.
MR. MOORE. I object, your Honor.
THE COURT. I will allow you to show that, if it is simply to show all the men in that party, that is, the four men.
MR. WILLIAMS. Yes.
THE COURT. I will allow that.
MR. MOORE. Reserve an exception.
THE COURT. Certainly.
MR. McANARNEY. An exception.
Q. Where did you see that man later?
A. In the Brockton police court.
Q. In the Brockton police court?
A. I mean, station.
Q. When in the Brockton police station?
A. This next night.
Q.That is the time you went up with your husband?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, did you learn what that man's name was at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. What was his name?
A. Sino or Scino.
Q. Do you know how it is spelled?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see it spelled?
A. Yes, in the paper.
Q. Can you spell it?
A. I don't know.
Q. See if this sounds familiar, A-r-c-i-a-n-i, or am I wrong?
A. I think that was the way it was spelled in the paper.
Q. You saw him at the Brockton police station that night?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he have on at that time?
A. Mackinaw coat and a soft hat.
Q. Now, after you say the two men stopped there at the motorcycle, what else did you do and what else did you see happen?
A. Well, I walked right along up to my front door, and my husband was talking to a mail.
Q. Who was he talking to?
A. The man that was standing by the pole.
Q. Do you know who he was?
A. Yes.
Q. What?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
A. Boda.
MR. MOORE. I object, your Honor.
THE COURT. Simply for the purpose of showing the names of the people who were there, you may inquire.
MR. MOORE. Exception.
MR. McANARNEY. Exception.
Q. Boda?
A. Boda.
Q. Do you know his first name?
A. I think, they called him Mike, I am not positive.
Q. Mike Boda. Now, what else did you see when you came back to your front door?
A. That is all I saw.
Q. Did you see anything more about the motorcycle?
A. Only that the man left my husband, and walked toward it.
Q. What man?
A. Boda.
Q. He left your husband and went toward the motorcycle?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was or who were by the motorcycle, at that time, if anybody?
MR. MOORE. I object, your Honor. There is no connection established.
THE COURT. It is for the same purpose?
MR. WILLIAMS. Yes, if your Honor please.
MR. MOORE. I reserve an exception.
MR. McANARNEY. Exception.
A. Shall I tell the names?
Q. Yes, I mean, as you saw Boda go towards the motorcycle, what was going on around the motorcycle, and who was there, if anybody?
A. The three men I saw first, one with the motorcycle and the two that followed me up the street.
Q. Where were they standing with reference to the motorcycle at the time you saw Boda going towards it?
A. They were standing right by the side of the car. The side car was on the right-hand side, and they were standing beside it, and the fellow driving it was sitting there as if just ready to start it, sitting on the seat.
Q. Did you hear anything said between any of those men?
A. No.
Q. Did you hear any talk?
A. I don't seem to remember it.
Q. Did you hear any talk, whether you could understand what was said or not?
A. No.
Q. How near were these two men standing to the man with the motorcycle when you saw them at the time you saw Boda go up towards them?
A. Right aside of the motor car, and he was sitting on the seat.
Q. Where was the light at that time?
A. Facing towards Brockton.
Q. How far was Boda from that group on the motorcycle when you saw him going towards it?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. You may answer.
MR. MOORE. I will reserve an exception.
MR. McANARNEY. Exception.
THE COURT. Certainly. Go ahead.
Q. Will you answer that, Mrs. Johnson?
A. I don't know as I can tell just how far.
Q. Well, where were you standing at that time?
A. Why, just back of my husband in the doorway.
THE COURT. I will give the jurors a recess now for five minutes.
(Short recess)
THE COURT. Does it appear here how far the Bartlett place is from the Johnson house?
MR. WILLIAMS. I haven't asked. I have it in mind, your Honor, and will ask in just a moment.
THE COURT. I didn't know whether the witness testified to it or not.
MR. WILLIAMS. No, I haven't asked, if your- Honor please.
Q. Now, Mrs. Johnson, suppose we are standing on your front door step, or thereabouts. Can you indicate here in the court room some object which would show and illustrate to the jury how far away the motorcycle with the three men about it were at that time?
A. About over to that space there between the two windows there.
Q. Between which two windows?
MR. MOORE. Kindly keep your voice up.
A. Right there where the sheriff is sitting.
Q. This sheriff here?
A. Yes, but further over.
Q. Right about there (indicating) ?
A. Yes.
Q. You are pointing to a place halfway between the window back of the sheriff and the next window—
A. Yes.
Q. -from you?
A. Yes.
Q. On which side of the street from you were they on at that time?
A. On the right-hand side going towards Brockton.
Q. That is, the car track side, as I understand it?
A. Yes.
THE COURT. Can you agree on that distance, so as to complete the record ?
MR. WILLIAMS. We have an official distance down here of thirty feet. That is a little on the bias. Have the defendants any doubts?
MR. MOORE. Don't ask the defendants if they have any doubts.
MR. WILLIAMS. It is about thirty feet, I should say.
Q. Were they in the street, were they in the car track, or were they in the grass?
A. In the street.
Q. And where in the street with reference to the car track?
A. Right alongside of the car track.
Q. Now, did you see anything happen after that?
A. No.
Q. What did you do then?
A. I went into the house.
Q. How far was Boda from these three men in the motorcycle when you last saw him, that is, the distance between the three men in the motorcycle and Boda, towards which he was walking, as I understand it?
A. About halfway, when I saw him last.
Q. About halfway. Would it be fair for us to say he was about fifteen feet from the men, is that right?
THE COURT. This was at what time?
Q. What time was this?
THE COURT. I don't mean the time of day.
THE WITNESS. I understand.
THE COURT. About what time when you saw what you have described as having taken place?
Q. What did you do just after that?
A. I went into the house, that is all I did.
Q. And this was just before you went into the house?
A. Yes.
MR. WILLIAMS. Is that what your Honor meant?
THE COURT. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us how far it is from your front door step or front door to the entrance of the Bartlett house, and by the "entrance" I mean the driveway, entering into the driveway of the Bartlett house?
A. Oh, the driveway, why, about sixty feet.
Q. Sixty feet?
A. They were halfway between the driveway and my door. The motorcycle was headed towards Brockton.
Q. I see. Have you measured it?
A. No.
Q. And how far-
THE COURT. I don't quite get that. Are you speaking-halfway, she said, from where they were, the men, were from your door?
MR. WILLIAMS. She said sixty feet to the entrance of the Bartlett house, and they were halfways from her door to the Bartlett house. Is that right, Mrs. Johnson?
A. Yes, sir.
THE COURT. Pardon me, I was in error.
Q. Now, I want you to go back inside of the house a minute, to the time before you had gone out on the street. You say you had heard a knock on the door?
A. Yes.
Q. When you heard the knock, did you have-when you heard the knock, you say you went to the door, or the inner door, and asked who was there, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you find out who was there?
A. No.
Q. Did you then have any talk with your husband? Just yes or no, please.
A. After I had gone to the door?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. Before you went out into the street?
A. Yes.
Q. And without giving us the conversation, can you tell us the subject of the talk you then had with your husband?
MR. MOORE. I object to that conversation.
THE COURT. You may direct the witness,-under Sampson against Sampson. Did you have any talk with your husband, or say anything to your husband, about a particular subject?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the subject you spoke of?
THE COURT. You ought to direct her to it, because she may testify to a private conversation. Sampson against Sampson says, that a husband can ask his wife if there was any talk with reference to a divorce. The Supreme Court says that is competent, on the ground it is evidence of the fact and not a conversation. That has been confirmed in the 235th, I think, in Commonwealth against Feci.
Q. Don't answer this, Mrs. Johnson, until his Honor has ruled upon it.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any talk with your husband then about a visit of Mike Boda?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. That is not Sampson v. Sampson.
Q. Well, did you have any talk with your husband about going to telephone for the police?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. I think I will exclude it.
Q. You say you did have a talk with your husband there?
A. I did.
Q. Was the subject of your talk with your husband about going to the Bartlett house to telephone for the police?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. I will exclude that, in that form.
MR. MOORE. Further, I think the character of those questions is wrong.
Q. Well, was the conversation about going to the Bartlett house?
MR. MOORE. I object, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. I will allow that.
A. Yes.
MR. MOORE. Reserve an exception.
MR. McANARNEY. An exception for both of us.
THE COURT. I will allow that, gentlemen, as evidence of a fact, not with regard to any conversation between the husband and wife.
Q. And was there further the subject of a talk you had with your husband about what you should do at the Bartlett House when you went there?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. I will exclude that.
Q. You had a talk about going to the Bartlett House?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did go to the Bartlett House?
A. Yes.
Q. You did what you said you have done at the Bartlett House?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, where was the man who you say was Mike Boda when you first recognized him on the street?
MR. MOORE. I object to the form of that question.
THE COURT. It does not appear that she recognized him on the street.
Q. Well, you say you saw a man on the street, and you say he is Mike Boda, didn't you?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. What is that?
MR. WILLIAMS. Please repeat the question.
(The question is read.)
THE COURT. Well, that is objectionable in that form.
Q. Well, did you tell us a few minutes ago that you saw a man on the street at some time after you had gone out, who was Mike Boda?
Q. No
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. I will exclude that.
Q. Well, what did you tell us about Mike Boda?
MR. MOORE. I object to that.
THE COURT. If anything.
Q. Did you mention the name of Mike Boda?
MR. MOORE. I object to that form of amendment.
THE COURT. I will admit it in that form. You may answer Yes or No.
MR. MOORE. I will reserve an exception.
Q. Did you mention the name of Mike Boda here a little while ago?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you say about him?
MR. MOORE. I object, your Honor.
THE COURT. You may answer.
MR. MOORE. I will reserve an exception.
THE COURT. Certainly.
MR. McANARNEY. To both, Please.
THE COURT. This is now about identification, I suppose.
Q. What did you say about Mike Boda a few minutes ago when I was asking you about the man on the street?
MR. MOORE. I think the record would be the best evidence of what was said.
THE COURT. Well, I have got a pretty strong recollection of what the testimony was, but I will allow you to ask that question.
A. He was the one standing by the pole.
Q. He was the one standing by the pole?
A. Yes.
Q. That is the one you spoke of?
A. Yes.
Q. And how far was that pole from the bridge?
A. From the bridge?
Q. Yes.
A. Why, it was at the corner of the bridge.
Q. It was at the corner of the bridge. How far from Mike Boda were these two men that you saw at the bridge when you saw him standing there at the pole?
A. They, were on the car track on the opposite side of him.
Q. How far from him?
A. About three yards and a half.
Q. Now, is there anything more that you saw any of these men do on that street that night that you have riot told us about, Mr. Johnson, that you now recall?
A. I don't think there is.
Q. While you were in the Bartlett House, did you look out of the window at any time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see anything connected with the motorcycle at that time that you haven't told us about?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, will you tell the jury what you saw?
A. I looked out of the window to see if I could see the men that walked up with me, and I couldn't, but I saw the light on the motorcycle facing towards Brockton, flashing back and forth, like that.
Q. When you say "back and forth"-
A. On one side, and then on the other.
Q. Where was the motorcycle at that time?
A. Facing towards Brockton, on the car track side.
Q. Did you see the motorcycle move after that until after you had got down by it?
A. No.
Q. Now, did you notice anything about the man who was on the other side of Sacco, whom you say you couldn't fully describe?
A. No, -just his hat and coat, that is all.
Q. Did you notice anything about his face?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever said at any time that you did notice something about his face?
MR. MOORE. I object to that, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. You may answer yes or No.
Q. Another thing, Mrs. Johnson, is there anything about the appearance of that other man that you can recollect that you haven't told us about here? Do you remember what you have told us here about that other man?
A. No, I don't seem to, only just his hat and coat.
Q. Anything about his face?
A. I couldn't see very good. He was on the other side-
Q. I appreciate that. I am simply asking you if there was anything further you can tell us about his appearance that you haven't told us here?
A. I think he had a mustache, that is all I could see. I couldn't see his features, or anything, only he looked as though he had a mustache, that is all.
Q. When you came back to the house, did you see your husband?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was he when you came back to the house?
A. Standing at the door.
Q. Was anybody with him?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was with him?
A. Boda.
Q. And it was after that you saw Boda go up towards the motorcycle?
A. Yes.
Q. That is all. What did Your husband then do, do you know?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. You may testify what he did.
A. After Boda had gone?
Q. Yes.
A. He came into the house.
Q. Did he go anywhere, so far as you know?
Q. I say, did he go anywhere then?
A. Yes.
Q. Where?
A. Down to the garage.
MR. MOORE. I object, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. You may testify. She said he went down to the garage.
MR. MOORE. I reserve an exception.
THE COURT. Very well.
MR. McANARNEY. An exception.
Q. How soon did you come back into the house after you saw him talking with Boda in front of the house?
A. Only a few minutes.
Q. Can you tell us how many minutes?
A. About two minutes.
Q. How many?
A. About two minutes.
Q. Perhaps you didn't understand me. Did he go down to the garage after you saw him talking with Boda in front of the house and you went into the house?
A. Yes. He came in with me.
Q. Well, didn't he go down to the garage?
A. Yes.
THE COURT. Did you see him go down to the garage?
THE WITNESS. No. I stayed right in the house.
THE COURT. I will exclude that.
Q. He came in with you after you saw Boda talking with him in front of the house?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he do then?
A. He went down to the garage.
Q. He went out of the house?
A. He went out of the house.
THE COURT. I will exclude the answer, that he went down to the garage. I will allow to remain that he went out of the house.
Q. How long was he out of the house at that time?
MR. MOORE. I object to that.
THE COURT. What is the real purpose about how long he was down there?
MR. WILLIAMS. It may be material, if your Honor please. It is not simply idle curiosity.
THE COURT. I will allow you to ask the question.
MR. MOORE. Exception.
MR. McANARNEY. Save an exception for both?
THE COURT. Certainly.
Q. Do you know how long he was out of the house at that time?
A. Quite a few hours.
Q. Quite a few hours?
A. Yes.
(Conference at the bench.)
THE COURT. At the request of counsel for the defendants, we will suspend cross-examination until to-morrow morning at ten o'clock, with the understanding, gentlemen, that we must make up for lost time, and I feel I should sit to-morrow night until at least five o'clock. We will stop here until to-morrow morning at ten o'clock.
Adjourned until 10 a.m., Friday, June 17, 1921.)
Dedham, Mass., June 17, 1921
THE COURT. You may poll the jury, please.
(The jury is polled, and the defendants answer "Present.")
THE COURT. The witness who was on the stand at the hour of adjournment last night, please return.
MR. WILLIAMS. I have just one further question, if your Honor please, I would like to ask the witness that I omitted to last night.
Q. (By Mr. Williams) I think my last question or two was in regard to your husband going out again after he came into the house and you said he went out and stayed sometime. Did he go away with anybody that time?
A. No.
Q. That is, he was alone, so far as you know, when he left the house that second time?
A. Yes.
Cross-Examination.
Q. (By Mr. McAnarney) Well, that night you didn't know a single one of these men you have been describing, did you?
A. No.
Q. Some one has since told you who they were, that is right, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. When you went to the door, you saw a man forty feet away, didn't you?
A. I don't know as it was forty feet.
Q. Haven't you told somebody that it was forty? Isn't it about forty, that he was?
A. Yes, I will say that it was.
Q. Now, is that the man who spoke to you?
A. Yes.
Q. After he spoke to you, what did you do? I assume you are at the doorway, or did you come out on the doorstep, or did you talk to him, and you in the door?
A. I think I stepped down from the step.
Q. After whatever passed between you two, what did you do?
A. I walked up the street towards Brockton.
Q. You didn't enter the house?
A. No.
Q. He asked You a question and you made an answer, assume?
A. He didn't ask me any question.
Q. He didn't ask anything?
A. No.
Q. Then, all that transpired was that you saw a man forty feet away, and you walked over towards the Bartlett house, is that right?
A. Well, he walked up to me, and I said that my husband would be right out, and that is all that was said.
Q. Without anything being said by him?
A. Not to me.
Q. Then you didn't know the man?
A. No.
Q. And you had never seen him before?
A. No.
Q. Are you telling that just as it was?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. A strange man whom you had never seen before, didn't know who he was, approaches your house, and you say, without his saying anything, "MY husband will be right out," and you walked right up the street to Bartlett's? You nod Your head, but you didn't speak. That is the situation, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. I now say to you, are you quite sure that is what happened that night?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was your husband then?
A. In the house.
Q. Well, now, as you stepped from your house you noticed two men coming from the opposite direction?
A. Yes.
Q. And you mean, in the opposite direction to the way you walked towards the Bartlett house?
A. Yes.
Q. And those men kept walking?
A. Yes.
Q. You went into the Bartlett house?
A. Yes.
Q. Those men didn't stop, so far as you could observe, up to the time that you went into the Bartlett house.
A. No.
Q. Now, you remained in the Bartlett house some ten or fifteen minutes. You wouldn't undertake to say, would you?
A. About ten. Not over.
Q. Would you say sure it wasn't twelve?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't take the time?
A. No.
Q. That is your new judgment as to the time you stayed in there, ten minutes?
A. About ten minutes.
Q. Whether it was eight or fifteen, you wouldn't now undertake to say?
A. I know it wasn't over ten.
Q. You know it wasn't over ten?
A. I am quite sure it wasn't over ten minutes.
Q. You took no note of the time? A. No.
Q. We will leave it to your best judgment you were in there about ten minutes. Now, the men that you say walked on, as you went towards the Bartlett house, what direction were they walking in the last you saw them?
A. Towards Brockton.
Q. They were walking towards Brockton?
A. Yes.
Q. And you came into the Bartlett house?
A. Yes.
Q. Those men didn't speak to you?
A. No.
Q. You didn't have any conversation with them?
A. No.
Q. Now, when you came out of the Bartlett house, did you then see anyone?
A. Not when I first came out of the door.
Q. Well, when you had come out of the door, I assume you started to go from the Bartlett house to your home?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, while you are walking from the Bartlett house down to your home, do you see anyone?
A. Yes.
Q. You saw two men?
A. Yes.
Q. Coming from or going in what direction?
A. Going towards Bridgewater.
Q. You don't know and have no idea whether those are the two men that were walking when you went into Mrs. Bartlett's?
MR. KATZMANN. One moment, if your Honor please.
Q. You have no idea, have you, that those were the two men that were walking on the street when you went into the Bartlett house?
MR. KATZMANN. One moment.
THE COURT. Have you any idea whether those were the same men or not?
A. One of them.
Q. Are you sure?
A. I am sure.
MR. McANARNEY. Page 295 of the record. I call your attention to this question, Mrs. Johnson:
Q. Did you walk out in the middle of the street before you started for the Bartlett house?
A. No, I got on the grass a little ways and went on the road afterwards.
Q. You went away toward the Bartlett house, and these men were about forty-five feet away, and they kept walking and did not stop ?
A. No, not that I saw.
Q. And you kept right on?
A. Yes.
MR. KATZMANN. What page did you say?
MR. McANARNEY. 295.
Q. You gave those-You received those questions and gave those answers' didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, it was pretty dark up there, wasn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. And you turned into the Bartlett house, they kept right on, did they?
A. It was quite dark up there, and I could not see whether they did or not.
Q. You so answered, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you not say they did?
A. I suppose they did. I did not see them.
Q. You so answered?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not hear them come up the driveway as you went into the Bartlett house?
A. No.
Q. Now, the Bartlett house is situated some distance back from the road, is it?
A. Yes.
Q. You so answered?
A. Yes.
Q. There is a good wide lawn in front of it from the road up and nothing in the way?
A. Just the road.
Q. You answered that, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. There are some trees on the road?
A. Yes.
Q. You so answered, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you staid there about ten minutes, and started back?
A. Yes.
Q. And, on your way back, you saw two men coming from the other direction?
A. Yes.
Q. Of course, at the time you did not know who they were or whether they were the same men or not?
A. No. I don't remember if I answered that, or not.
Q. Did you say that you didn't so answer?
THE COURT. Speak up, Mrs. Johnson.
A. I don't know whether I answered that or not, I don't remember.
MR. KATZMANN. What is your answer, Mrs. Johnson?
A. I don't know whether I answered that or not, I don't remember.
MR. McANARNEY. 295 of the record. You have that question and answer, have you not?
MR. KATZMANN. Read it again, please.
MR. McANARNEY. I will read it again. (Reads.)
Q. Of course, at the time you did not know who they were or whether they were the same men or not?
A. No.
Q. Do you now say you did not so answer?
A. Probably I answered that.
Q. And if you so answered at that time, you meant to tell the truth, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Johnson, having in mind the true situation that night, to wit, a dark night, men who were entire strangers to you, and the only view that you got of the faces of those men was practically when the searchlight of an automobile flashed or was on one of the men, are you prepared to say that you definitely identify any one of those men?
A. Yes.
Q. Notwithstanding the fact that you now say it was true when you testified to it that you don't know whether the men who walked up the street are the same men that you saw ten minutes later?
A. One of them.
Q. Did you not say there that you couldn't tell whether or not they were the same men?
MR. KATZMANN. One moment, if your Honor please. That is not the question.
MR. McANARNEY. I submit it is the question.
THE COURT. I will allow the question. Of course, it is for the jury to interpret that meaning, whether she had in mind both or one. It is for their interpretation, not for me.
MR. McANARNEY. I submit that when the question is "men", that there can be only one interpretation,-and it requires no interpretation.
THE COURT. That is for the jury. The district attorney evidently was going to contend differently, and I am going to leave it-for the jury to determine just what the language was.
MR. McANARNEY. I am not going to have any misunderstanding on that. That there be no misunderstanding, or any occasion to misunderstand, I now repeat that question;
Q. Of course, at the time you did not now who they were or whether they were the men or not-
MR. KATZMANN. The same men.
MR. McANARNEY. -the same men or not?
A. No.
Q. You knew that question meant "men", that "they" meant men, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. No misunderstanding about that, is there?
A. No.
MR. McANARNEY. Again, on the same line. "11" on the left margin of the record, Mr. Katzmann. (Reads.)
Q. Now, were they the same two men who followed you as you went from your house to Bartlett's?
A. I don't know; I would not say for sure. They looked like them, in the glance I took when I came out of the house.
Q. When you came out of the house, did you get a good look at them before you went to the Bartlett house?
A. Well, I could just see he had a derby and a long coat and his face looked dark, and I don't think I would recognize him if I had not seen him.
Q. Now, after that night that you saw him there, when next did you see him?
A. At the Brockton police station.
Q. That is where, but I mean when. How long after your seeing the men at that incident at your home, how long after that was it you saw them at the Brockton police station?
A. The next night.
Q. The next night. Now, dealing with—Now, you identify one of these men, and you called him, as it was spelled out here, Orcianni, or some name like that; you gave, before we closed last night, some identification of him, didn’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, did You recognize that man's face last night?
A. No.
Q. Did You recognize a single feature-
A. No.
Q. -of the man, at Bridgewater that night as the man that you saw later at Brockton?
A. No.
Q. Whether he was light or dark complected, you don't know?
A. No.
Q. Whether he was blue-eyed or black-eyed, you don't know?
A. No.
Q. All you recognized of a man who was pointed out to you was a coat and hat, that is right, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you now claim to have recognized the face which is now called Sacco's before you went into the Johnson house-the Bartlett house, I mean?
A. I don't know what you mean.
Q. Do you now claim to have recognized the face that is now called the Sacco face before you went into the Bartlett house? A. I am quite sure he is the same one.
Q. Notwithstanding the answer that you gave shortly after the matter, wherein you said No to that very question?
MR. KATZMANN. Well, one moment. That is assuming she did.
MR. McANARNEY. Do you deny that I have not read the correct transcript of her evidence? If you do, I will call the stenographer later.
THE COURT. I don't think you ought to indulge in a conversation of that kind.
MR. McANARNEY. If he objects-- He made a comment, without objection. I don't understand that he objected; he made a comment.
MR. KATZMANN. If your Honor please, I object to the question that what he says-
MR. McANARNEY. You are now objecting.
MR. KATZMANN. -is an assumption. - I say it is an assumption, and the fact-
THE COURT. Did you not object?
MR. KATZMANN. Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT. That is what I understood.
MR. McANARNEY. If your Honor will pardon me, the record will show.
THE COURT. I supposed from that act, I assumed that there was an objection coming.
MR. McANARNEY. He said something, and I replied to it.
THE COURT. What have you got, Mr. Stenographer, that Mr. Katzmann said? I know he got partly up.
(Mr. Katzmann's statement is read as follows; "Well, one moment that is assuming she did.")
MR. McANARNEY. That is what I call a comment, and not an objection.
THE COURT. No, I think that cannot be conceded when you say "Wait a moment." I think I have heard that a great many times myself.
MR. McANARNEY. I am satisfied with the situation.
THE COURT. It is true that is his reason for waiting a moment. If you desire that counsel should every time instead of saying "Wait a moment" expressly use the word "Object", I don't suppose Mr. Katzmann would have any objection.
MR. McANARNEY. Well, when comment is made, I am apt to reply to it. That is the natural situation.
Q. Now, in view of your question and answer as I have read to you wherein you answered No, do you now want to say that you recognized Sacco before you went into the Bartlett house?
A. I would know him if I saw him again.
Q. Pardon me, will you answer the question? Please read the question.
MR. KATZMANN. I ask that that answer stand, if your Honor please.
MR. McANARNEY. I submit it is not an answer to the question.
THE COURT. Can you answer it, Mrs. Johnson, by Yes or No.
THE WITNESS. Yes.
Q. Then by that I assume that you mean you did recognize him before you went into the Bartlett house?
A. Before I did, yes.
Q. Before you went into the Bartlett house?
A. Yes.
Q. It is called to my attention in regard to the identification of Orcianni that he was behind the light, wasn't he, Orcianni?
A. Right behind it.
Q. And all you saw of him was the back of his coat and his hat, wasn't it?
A. No, the front of his coat and hat.
Q. That is all you saw of that man, the front of his coat and hat?
A. Yes.
Q. His height, weight, complexion or anything, but still you say you identify him?
A. Why, just his coat and hat, that is all.
Q. Then you don't undertake to identify this man, except you identify a hat and coat that you saw that night?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, dealing with a further examination of you, and this is at .the bottom of the left-hand marking "9" of the official record. Speaking of when you were at the police station at Brockton-
MR. McANARNEY. Third from the bottom, Mr. Katzmann.
MR. KATZMANN. My paging is wholly different, Mr. McAnarney.
MR. McANARNEY. If your Honor please, there is a confusion in our copies of the transcript; they are numbered different. You have the question now, Mr. Katzmann?
MR. KATZMANN. Yes.
Q. And you saw that man later in the police station at Brockton? -referring to Sacco, and your answer was "Yes"?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was, you say, Sacco?
A. Yes.
Q. He was much heavier than the taller man, and he towered over him?
A. No, I would not say that. I should say the top of his head was over the other man.
Q. You so answered, didn't you?
A. No.
Q. You didn't make that answer? I will read the question and the answer once more.
Q. He was much heavier than the taller man, and he towered over him?
A. No, I would not say that. I should say the top of his head was over the other man."
Q. Did you not say, on the 22nd day of June, last year, did you not so testify, Madam?
A. I don't remember of saying that.
Q. You don't remember. If you did, you meant it as being the truth didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Madam, there was one thing I omitted to ask you. You heard no conversation between those two men, whoever they were, who went up and down, and the others, did you? I mean the men at the motorcycle?
A. No.
Q. You heard no conversation between themselves, those two who walked on the right side?
A. No.
Q. So there was not, so far as your hearing and sight could tell you, there was no conversation between those two men and whoever was between them and the motorcycle, and you heard no conversation between those two men?
A. No.
MR. McANARNEY. That is all.
Redirect Examination.
Q. (By Mr. Williams) If I remember correctly, Mrs. Johnson, yesterday you described the coat by which you recognized a certain man, as a mackinaw coat, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you notice any pattern on that coat?
A. I could see it was a plaid-
MR. MOORE. I object. That has been testified to.
Q. Well, what did you notice about the mackinaw coat?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. If anything. The best way is, "Did you notice anything about the mackinaw coat, and, if so, what?"
A. Just like any other mackinaw, with a belt, a short coat.
Q. Did you notice anything else about it?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. I will allow you to ask that question. I suppose that is for the purpose of exhausting the recollection of the witness. For that purpose I will allow it.
A. It was a plaid mackinaw coat.
Q. Do you know what kind of a plaid?
A. No, I don't think I do.
Q. When you say a "plaid" just what do you mean by a plaid?
A. Most all colors.
Q. Well, can you tell us anything more about it than it was all colors?
MR. MOORE. I object.
THE COURT. You may answer that question.
A. No.
Q. Do you recall anything about any pattern?
A. No.
Q. Now, do you recall anything about the hat of that man that had the mackinaw coat?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of a cap or hat was it?
A. It seemed to be a soft hat, pulled over the eyes.
Q. Now, you say the next night-did you say the next night-
A. Yes.
Q. -you say a man in the Brockton police station?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did that man have on?
A. When I first came in he had on-They brought him in, and he had on a khaki shirt, and the next time he had on a coat and hat.
Q. And what coat and hat?
A. Mackinaw coat and soft hat.
Q. Now, what do you say as to the mackinaw coat and soft hat which you saw on the man in the Brockton police station?
A. What do I say?
Q. Well, that is a blind question, and you may strike it out. Can you tell these gentlemen, having in mind what you had seen the night before on May 5, what the mackinaw coat and hat that you saw on the man you saw in the Brockton police station looked like?
A. The same.
Q. Are you sure of that?
A. Positive.
Q. That is all. Did you tell us yesterday who that man was?
A. Yes.
Q. What was his name?
A. Orcianni.
Re-Cross-Examination.
Q. (By Mr. McAnarney) You say it seemed to be a soft hat.
A. Yes.
Q. When you say "it seemed to be a soft hat," you have some doubts in your mind as to the exact character of that hat, don't you?
A. No.
Q. Then, your words are idle talk, are they, when you say, "It seemed to be a soft hat," Didn't you mean just what you said when you said that?
A. I mean it was a soft hat.
Q. Why didn't you say so?
A. Well, it was a soft hat because it was pulled down over the eyes. A stiff hat, you couldn't pull it the way this was.
Q. You mean, it was not a derby and not a soft hat?
A. It was soft hat.
Q. Then, the man had on a soft hat. What color?
A. It was dark.
Q. Whether it was dark brown or black, you wouldn't say?
A. No.
Q. Now, he had on a mackinaw, just the same as any other mackinaw didn't he?
A. Yes.
Q. Nothing different than any other mackinaw?
A. No.
Q. And he had on a soft hat, dark brown or black or something inbetween there in color, didn't he?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is all, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. So that any man of about that size that they would have led out to you that day at Brockton, who had on a mackinaw the same as any mackinaw, and who had on a soft hat bent down, would be the man you would identify, wouldn't it?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, you have no other way of identifying him, have you?
A. No.
MR. McANARNEY. That is all.
Redirect Examination.
Q. (By Mr. Williams) You say "All mackinaws look alike," What do you mean by that, Mrs. Johnson?
MR. McANARNEY. Now, if your Honor please, I object. There are some things been determined by the use of the English language since the world began, and what this witness says "All mackinaws look alike" that has a meaning.
THE COURT. Is that a matter of common knowledge?
MR. McANARNEY. I should say so.
THE COURT. If it is-
MR. McANARNEY. Certainly it is a matter of common knowledge that all mackinaws look alike.
THE COURT. Shall I rule it?
MR. McANARNEY. You are not called upon to on this question.
THE COURT. If it is a matter of common knowledge, the Court should have knowledge of it.
MR. McANARNEY. I would not hold the Court to a knowledge of mackinaws.
THE COURT. I should hate to have anyone depend upon the knowledge of the Court as to mackinaws. What I suppose here is, she has reference to various colors.
MR. McANARNEY. She has been asked about that.
THE COURT. She has? Is that what you have in mind?
MR. WILLIAMS. I asked her, and she said there were various colors in this mackinaw.
MR. McANARNEY. No, she did not.
THE COURT. Look it up, and let us see what she did say. (The answer of the witness is read.)
THE COURT. She has answered it.
MR. WILLIAMS. Now, I asked her what she meant by "All mackinaws look alike," I don't think she understood that.
THE COURT. I don't think you have a right to assume she did not understand it. That reply may be stricken from the record. You may ask her now what she meant by it.
Q. What did you mean by your answer to Mr. McAnarney's question in regard to all mackinaws looking alike?
A. Why, they generally are short, plaid coats with a belt, that is all I know.
Q. Was there anything about this mackinaw coat in regard to colors, pattern or anything that is distinctive?
MR. McANARNEY. If your Honor please, I exhausted that in crossexamination.
THE COURT. And I understand this is with reference to your crossexamination.
MR. McANARNEY. In reference to his direct examination.
THE COURT. Yes, but you went further in your cross.
MR. WILLIAMS. Will you read the question, please? (The question is read.)
A. No.
Q. Well, let me ask you directly, Mrs. Johnson, was there anything in regard to that coat, other than it was a mackinaw, by which you recognized the man who had one on the night at the Brockton police station?
MR. McANARNEY. To that I object, your Honor.
THE COURT. Hasn't she answered that?
MR. WILLIAMS. Possibly not in that form, if your Honor please.
THE COURT. Practically in that form. That is my recollection.
Q. Well, did you recognize that coat that you saw the night before at the Brockton police station the next night?
MR. McANARNEY. To that I object.
THE COURT. She has said that. She has answered that already.
Q. Will you tell the jury a little more in detail what a mackinaw coat is like?
MR. McANARNEY. If your Honor please, I object.
MR. WILLIAMS. Well, this thing about the mackinaw coat, I want to get in all the facts I can regarding that coat, if your Honor please.
MR. McANARNEY. That may be, but there is some limitation to redirect.
THE COURT. I will allow you to put in your evidence in chief. Anything that Mr. McAnarney drew out in cross-examination I have allowed you to take that up further for explanation, as you have a right to do as a matter of law, but this refers in no -way, does it, to any cross-examination? This refers to nothing that he brought out in cross-examination.
MR. WILLIAMS. If I have neglected to ask her anything further in regard to that coat, I should like to have the opportunity to do it now.
THE COURT. Do you say in chief you omitted to ask the question you now ask?
MR. WILLIAMS. I omitted to ask the details, the way a mackinaw coat is built arid looks, and I should like to have her describe it to the jury now.
THE COURT. Ask her first if she can.
Q. Is there anything further you can tell us in regard to that mackinaw coat, which you have not told us, Mrs. Johnson?
A. I don't think there is.
MR. WILLIAMS. That is all. You may inquire.
MR. McANARNEY. No further questions.
MR. WILLIAMS. You may be excused, Mrs. Johnson.