Selected Testimony of David Pecker in the Donald Trump "Hush Money" Trial of 2024
1. Pecker testifies about encouraging Trump to run for president…Pecker says he will be “eyes and ears” of the campaign, promises to run positive stories about Trump, negative stories about opponents, and look to “catch-and-kill” embarrassing stories involving Trump and women. (Transcript, pp. 1008-1015):
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY PROSECUTOR JOSHUA STEINGLASS:
Q So directing your attention to early 2015, did you ever speak with the defendant about his interest in running for president?
A Yes, I did.
Q And tell the jury, can you tell the jury a little bit about that?
A Yes. As I mentioned a little earlier, when Mr. Trump launched The Apprentice and then launched The Celebrity Apprentice, his -- I would say the interest in Mr. Trump through my magazines, basically the National Enquirer, skyrocketed. We would do a lot of research to determine what would the proper cover of the magazine to be, to see which celebrity would sell the best. And in all of the time that -- every time we did this, Mr. Trump would be the top celebrity. So, and some of the other pieces of the research was clear that Mr. Trump was viewed as The Boss: Seeing him in the board room, seeing him in the -- on each of the shows every week, he was the person. So I discussed with him that we did a poll in the National Enquirer about Mr. Trump running for president, would he be - how would the readership feel, and he -- I should say the research showed that 80 percent of the readership of the National Enquirer would want Mr. Trump to run for president. And I passed that on, the information on to Donald Trump, and shortly after he was on a -- he was being interviewed on The Today Show, and Matt Lauer interviewed him with respect to his 6 aspirations of running for president. And one of the comments was about, that Mr. Trump made was that this poll that was just recently done at the National Enquirer.
Q So he cited your poll to Matt Lauer as he was flirting with the idea of running for president?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember when Mr. Trump announced that he was running for president?
A It was June of 2015.
Q And how do you remember that?
A I was there at the announcement.
Q How did it come to be that you were there at the announcement?
A I received an invitation from Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen sent me an invitation saying that there is going to be an announcement and I believe you should be there. So that's why -- that's how I knew.
Q Okay. Thank you.
MR. STEINGLASS: Madame Clerk, I would like to display just for the witness, the parties, and the Court at this time the next exhibit, or the first exhibit, which is People's 151. Bear with us while we work out this technology.
Q Mr. Pecker, do you see anything on your screen?
A Yes, I do.Q Okay. Do you recognize this exhibit, People's 151?
A Yes, I do.
Q What is it?
A It's an email from me to Michael Cohen dated June 2nd, 2015, thanking him for thinking of me for his invitation. And then there is an invitation from Michael Cohen to me, which is the first email inviting me to the June 16th press announcement at Trump Tower at 11 o'clock.
Q So that's the email that you were referring to?
A Yes.
MR. STEINGLASS: Now, please display this for everyone. (Displayed.)MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you very much.Q Okay. I'm just going to, it's a little small so I think we can blow up portions of it as we need it. Can you just tell us when you got the email?A June 2nd. I'm sorry, June 2nd, 2015, at 6:59 a.m.
Q Okay. And what was the substance of the email, you can just read it to us?A Oh, okay. "I hope you are well. I'm sure you have seen the news about the June 16th press announcement at Trump Tower at 11:00 a.m. As a friend, I would love if you could make it. Let me know so I can save you a seat next to me on the atrium floor. No one deserves to be there more than you."Q And how was the email signed?
A Oh, from Michael Cohen.
Q Got it. Thank you. Did you go?
A Yes, I went.
Q Tell us about it?A I was there. I was with -- I went into -- I walked into Trump Tower. I -- Michael Cohen was in the atrium, so I found him, and then I was there when Mr. Trump and Melania came down the staircase and went up to the podium.Q And is that when he announced his candidacy for president?
A Yes.
Q Now, again, you used the name Melania in your answer. Are you referring to Melania Trump?
A Melania Trump, yes.
Q And is that the defendant's wife?
A Yes.
Q Directing your attention to a couple of months later, now in August of 2015, did there come a time when you attended a meeting in Trump Tower?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember when roughly that meeting was in August?
A It was the middle of August.
Q And who was present for that meeting?
A Donald Trump, Michael Cohen and Hope Hicks.
Q And was Hope Hicks there the whole time or was she in and out?
A She was in and out.
Q How about Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, were they there for the duration of the meeting?
A Yes.
Q How did the meeting come about? How did you know to go?
A I received a call from Michael Cohen telling me that The Boss wanted to see me, and that's how -- when I spoke to Michael Cohen, that's how he would refer to Donald Trump as The Boss.
Q What did you understand the purpose of the meeting to be before you actually got there?
A I -- most of the time when I received a call from Michael Cohen, he wanted something, so I assumed that they were going to ask -- I was going to be asked for something. I didn't know what it was before I got there.
Q Well, can you describe for the jury what happened at that meeting, please?
A At that meeting, Donald Trump and Michael, they asked me what can I do and what my magazines could do to help the campaign. So thinking about it, as I did previously, I said what I would do is I would run or publish positive stories about Mr. Trump and I would publish negative stories about his opponents. And I said that I would also be the eyes and ears of your - I said I would be your eyes and ears because I know that the Trump Organization had a very small staff. And then I said that anything that I hear in the marketplace, if I hear anything negative about yourself or if I hear anything about women selling stories, I would notify Michael Cohen, as I did over the last several years, I would notify Michael Cohen and then he would be able to have them killed in another magazine or have them not be published or somebody would have to purchase them.
Q Purchase the negative stories about Mr. Trump so that they would not get published, you mean?
A That they would not get published, yes.
Q So I want to break that down a little bit. First of all, when you offered -- withdrawn. So you offered to publish positive stories about Mr. Trump?
A Yes.
Q To publish negative stories about his opponents?
A Yes.
Q And to alert him through Michael Cohen when you came across damaging information, particularly regarding women?
A Yes.
Q And the idea was that so Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen could prevent that information from being publicized?
A Yes.
Q So you mentioned women in particular. What made you -- are you the one who raised that? Did somebody else raise that? Can you explain to the jury how the topic of women in particular came up?
A Well, in a presidential campaign I was the person that thought that there would be a number -- a lot of women come out to try to sell their stories, because Mr. Trump was well-known as the most eligible bachelor and dated the most beautiful women. And it was clear that based on my past experience, that when someone is running for a public office like this, the -- it is very common for these women to call up a magazine like the National Enquirer to try to sell their stories. Or I would hear it in the marketplace through other sources that stories are being marketed.
Q Did you have or express any ideas about how you may be able to help kind of deal with those stories by women?
A All I said was I would notify Michael Cohen.
2. Pecker testifies that Micheal Cohen tells him the story of Karen McDougal’s affair with Donald Trump is not true….Cohen suggests that AMI purchase the McDougal story….In phone call with Pecker, Trump describes McDougal as “a nice girl.”….Pecker believes McDougal story is true….Pecker recommends to Trump that he purchase the story, but Trump says he doesn’t do that because the story always comes out…Later that day or the next, Cohen calls Pecker and indicates that Trump has changed his mind and thinks Pecker should buy McDougal’s story….Pecker balks at paying $150,000 for McDougal’s story….Cohen assures him that if he does, “the Boss” (Trump) will take care of it (Transcript 1107-1119) (April 25, 2024):
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. STEINGLASS:
Q Good morning, Mr. Pecker.
21 A Good morning.
22 Q When we left off, we were talking about June 20th, when
23 Mr. Howard was out in California interviewing Ms. McDougal.
24 Do you remember that?
25 A Yes, I do.
Q After Dylan Howard concluded his interview with Karen McDougal, did you and he speak?
A Yes, we did.
Q And what did he tell you?
A He described to me who Karen McDougal was. He repeated again that she was a Playboy model. She claimed that she had a yearlong relationship with Donald Trump, a sexual relationship. She claimed she was -- he said that she was 47 years old. And he said that she was a 12 out of 10. And then he said that he believed the story could be true or was true, but she had no corroborating evidence. He said to me that she didn't have anything on her Blackberry. She didn't have any photos. She didn't have any expense reports that -- she claimed that she went to Mar-a-Lago and Trump Tower. So, but he believed the story was true. He went on to say that he offered her, and her representative, $10,000 to buy the story. And it was refused.
Q Did you ever have a three-way call that day with Dylan Howard and Michael Cohen?
A Yes, I did.
Q How did that come about?
A Michael Cohen was constantly calling me while Dylan Howard was in this meeting interviewing Karen McDougal. And I told Michael that as soon as I hear from Dylan, I will set up a three-way call.
Q And did that three-way call actually happen?
A Yes. Yes, it did. I used -- Michael Cohen told me to make sure that I used Signal. So I set up the Signal call between myself, Michael Cohen and Dylan Howard.
Q And tell us about that conversation, please?
A Dylan described exactly what I just mentioned about who Karen McDougal was, and all of the details that I just stated. And immediately Michael Cohen said it's not true, which is something that he always said. And then he said, let me -- let me check it out and I will come back to you.
Q Was there any discussion on that three-way call about acquiring the rights to Karen McDougal's story?
A Yes. Michael said that -- well, I will take -- let me just clarify: When Dylan suggested that he offered $10,000 to buy Karen's story, which is including the entire story, what she was claiming, and she refused, Michael suggested that we should go ahead to try to buy the story.
Q And did he say why he wanted you to try to buy the story?
A Well, first he said the story wasn't true. Then he said that he thought that having that story out -and I should add on, Dylan mentioned that ABC was interested in acquiring the story. He also mentioned that a Mexican group made an offer for the story for 8 million dollars. Michael and I both said that although we didn't believe that there was a Mexican group that was going to buy the story, the ABC offer was interesting because they were offering apparently Karen a slot on Dancing with the Stars. But I knew from my experience that ABC doesn't buy stories, so I didn't think they were paying cash for the story. He -- Dylan, also mentioned that Karen McDougal said that she didn't want her story to be published. She said she didn't want to be the next Monica Lewinsky. She said that she wanted to restart her career. He said that -- this is Dylan -- Dylan said that she was a -- apparently a -- originally a fitness model. And she was the first female model on one of the covers of one of my magazines, for one of American Media's magazines, which was Men's Fitness. This was in -- on a cover in 1999. So he felt that she would be more interested in coming – in having American Media buying the story than anyone else.
Q. And when you say "he" in that sentence?
A I'm sorry. I meant Michael Cohen -- excuse me, I meant Dylan Howard.
Q Thank you. And to the extent that it's possible, if you could remember, it's better to use names than pronouns, so we don't have to run into that issue.
A Okay. I'll do that.
Q If you can remember. How did your -- withdrawn. What was your initial thought after that three-way call about how to handle the Karen McDougal situation?
A I thought we would have to buy that story. I believed exactly what Dylan said. He has a -- he knows this marketplace. He's the Chief Content Officer for the company. We should -- Karen McDougal's attorney was Keith Davidson, and Keith Davidson was one of the major sources for Dylan Howard. So I felt that this story should be purchased.
Q Now, I think you started to allude to, at the end of the day on Tuesday, a conversation that you had with Donald Trump himself about this. Do you remember that?
A Yes.
Q So my first question is: Do you remember when that conversation with Donald Trump happened?
A It was the third -- I think it was the third week of June of 2016.
Q So some time -- was it after Dylan Howard had gone out to interview Karen McDougal on June 20th?
A Yes.
Q And after the three-way call that you had had with Michael Cohen and Dylan Howard?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Where were you when you got this call from Donald Trump?
A I was at an investor's -- at one of my largest investor's meeting in New Jersey.
Q And how did the call come in?
A Oh, I was making a presentation and an update on our business, and the assistant in the office came into the conference room and said: There is a call for you from Donald Trump. And I left and took the call.
Q And could you tell us about the conversation you had that day with Donald Trump?
A Yes. When I got on the phone, Mr. Trump said to me: "I spoke to Michael. Karen is a nice girl." "Is it true that a Mexican group is looking to buy her story for 8 million dollars?" 2 I said -- I said: "I absolutely don't believe that there is a Mexican group out there to buy a story for $8 million dollars." And then he said: "What do you think I should do?" I said: "I think you should buy the story and take it off the market."
Q So when the subject of Karen McDougal came up, Donald Trump described her as a nice girl?
A Yes.
Q Based on your conversation with Mr. Trump, did you have an understanding as to whether he was aware of the specifics of Karen McDougal's description of the affair?
A Yes, I did.
Q What made you come to such an understanding?
A I think that Michael Cohen gave him the -- spoke to Donald Trump, which he said he was going to -- which – excuse me -- which Donald Trump said on the phone that, "I spoke to Michael." And I believe that when Mr. Trump said that to me over the phone that she was a nice girl, I believe that he knew who she was -
Q Why would you recommend to Donald Trump purchasing the story?
A I believed the story was true. I think that it would have been very embarrassing to himself and also to his campaign.
Q After your conversation with Donald Trump, did you have another conversation with Michael Cohen?
A Yes. On the conversation with Donald Trump, he said to me, clearly, that he doesn't buy stories because it always gets out. And he said to me that Michael Cohen would be calling me. He was going to speak to Michael and he would be calling me back.
Q Now, you used a pronoun there?
A I'm sorry.
Q That's okay.
A I'm sorry about that.
Q When you said "he" in that last answer, were you referring to Donald Trump?
A Yes, I was. I'm sorry.
Q It's okay. So did there come a time when Michael Cohen followed up with you?
A Yes. He called me that day or the next day.
Q Tell us about that conversation?
A He called me -- he called me and he said that we – he said we should -- he said: "You should go ahead and buy this story." So I said to him, I said: "I'm going to have Dylan Howard negotiate the terms." And then I said: "Who's going to pay for it?" So he said to me: "Don't worry. I'm your friend. The Boss will take care of it."
Q Who did you understand "The Boss" to be a reference to?
A Donald Trump.
Q When Michael Cohen said: "The Boss will take care of it," what did you understand that to mean?
A That he -- that I would be either reimbursed by the Trump Organization or by Donald Trump.
Q Now, did Mr. Cohen say anything to you on that follow-up call one way or the other that led you to believe that he was aware of your conversation that you had had with Donald Trump when you were with your investor in New Jersey?
A Yes. He told me that he was sitting in Donald Trump's office when he called me. I don't know if he was on speaker phone or not, but he said that he was there and he heard.
Q Did he tell you one way or the other whether he was able to overhear your conversation with Donald Trump?
A Yes, he did.
Q What did he say about that?
A He said that: "I heard what you said to The Boss. And I want you to go forward and negotiate the" -- excuse me, I'm sorry -- "I want you to go forward and negotiate the purchase of the story."
Q And did he give you Donald Trump's view on that question of whether to go forward to buy the story?
A He just said to go forward to buy the story.
Q Did the topic of the $30,000 that you had already laid out on the Dino Sajudin story [a probably false story a doorman at Trump Tower sold about an alleged love child Trump had with a hotel maid] come up during that conversation with Michael Cohen?
A At that conversation, we didn't have what the purchase price was going to be for the Karen McDougal story as of yet.
Q Okay.
A If I can add?
Q Sure.
A From that conversation, I was authorized basically to go forward and have Dylan Howard negotiate the price and negotiate the terms.
Q And did you, in fact, ask Dylan to go forward and negotiate the terms?
A I did.
Q Now, you told us that Michael Cohen told you that The Boss would take care of it, would pay you back. How did you feel about Michael Cohen's representation that Mr. Trump would reimburse you?
A Over the years that I know -- that I worked with Michael Cohen, I know he didn't have any authorization to spend or to disburse any funds from the Trump Organization. Every time that we went even out for lunch, I always paid. He never paid. So I didn't think that he had any authorization to buy or acquire or spend any monies.
Q Without Mr. Trump's approval?
A Without Mr. Trump's approval. I'm sorry.
Q During the time -- withdrawn. You told us that you gave Dylan Howard the authority to go ahead and negotiate a deal with Karen McDougal. Is that right?
A That's correct.
Q Was Dylan Howard giving you periodic updates during those negotiations?
A Yes, he did.
Q And did there come a time when you discussed with Dylan Howard some of the terms of the potential deal?
A Yes.
Q What were some of the terms?
A Dylan Howard gave me the following terms: To purchase the lifetime rights from Karen McDougal was going to cost $150,000. Plus Karen wanted to restart her career. She wanted to write for the celebrity magazines. She wanted to be on the cover of some of the health and fitness titles. She had a major problem when her breast implants were removed and she wanted to write some articles about that in Shape and in some of the other magazines. And she also wanted to launch a clothing line, a fitness clothing line, as well as a beauty product company – beauty products. And she wanted to -- let me just -- oh, she wanted to be an anchor for the red carpet events with Radar Magazine.
Q Did you update Michael Cohen on the negotiations?
A Yes, I did.
Q How often did you speak with Michael Cohen during the period when Dylan Howard was negotiating this deal with Karen McDougal?
A We -- we spoke very frequently, probably, at least, probably daily.
Q How would you describe his tone?
A Michael was very agitated. Why is this taking so long? Why didn't we acquire -- why didn't we buy the story yet? Why didn't we finish the agreement? So he was pretty agitated.
Q Did you discuss with Michael Cohen the manner of who would be paying Karen McDougal?
A Yes. Now that we had the price, that it was $150,000, I said: "Who is going to pay for this?" So he said: "You should pay." I said: "Michael" -- I said -- "why would I pay? I just 3 paid $30,000 for the doorman story." I said: "Now you're asking me to pay $150,000 for the Karen story, plus all of these other additional items that she wants to do." "I don't have a problem in doing everything else that she requested about writing for the magazines, to be on the cover of the books -- of the fitness titles. That's not an issue. That I don't have a problem with." "The $150,000, who is going to reimburse me for this?" So he said, again: "Don't worry about it. I'm your friend. The Boss will take care of it."
Q And, again, not to beat a dead horse, but when you have -- when Michael Cohen told you: "Don't worry, The Boss will take care of it," what did you understand that to mean?
A "The Boss" would have been Donald Trump.
Q And "take care of it" means what?
A That either -- that I would be reimbursed either from the Trump Organization or from Donald Trump.
3. Pecker testifies he learns that Stormy Daniels is shopping a story about her affair with Donald Trump…Pecker tells his editor at the National Enquirer, Dylan Howard, that American Media (AMI) will not buy the story, that he’s paid enough already to kill stories…Pecker tells Howard to Michael Cohen and tell them they should buy and kill the Daniels story. (Transcript, pp. 1184-1189):
Q. How did you come to learn of her [Stormy Daniels] in connection with this case?
A. I was having dinner with my wife and I received an urgent call from Dylan Howard. So I walked out. So I walked out of the restaurant and took the call, and Dylan said that he received a call from his two best sources, Keith Davidson, who we know is the attorney for Karen McDougal, and this other source, Gina Rodriguez, who is an agent for those type of celebrities. He said that she, being Stormy Daniels, is trying to sell a story that she had a sexual relationship with Donald Trump, and Dylan can acquire the story for $120,000 from Keith Davidson if we make the decision right now.
Q. Do you remember what night it was? You said were you having dinner?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what night it was?
A. I thought it was a Saturday night. I know it was the first week of October.
Q. You think it was a Saturday night before or after the Access Hollywood tape came out?
A. This would have been after the Access Hollywood came out.
Q. If I pull up calendar on my phone from October of 2016, would that refresh your recollection as to what date it was?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection as to the date of the Saturday night that you had your dinner interrupted by Dylan Howard?
A. That would have been Saturday, October 8th.
Q. Thank you. I will take it back.
MR. BOVE: I object. Technically that answer is nonresponsive. The question is; does that refresh your recollection?
THE COURT: I will allow it.
Q. Now, after your initial conversation with Dylan Howard, did you have a series of texts back and forth with him?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. I am showing you what is in evidence as People's 174A, and as we're pulling it up, we can show it to everyone, please. I am going to ask if this is a record of texts between you and Dylan Howard from October and November of 2016?
A. That's correct.
MR. STEINGLASS: And I am going to ask that we blow up the last column or the lines marked 260 through 265. (Displayed.)
Q. Are you able to read that, Mr. Pecker?
A. Yes, I can.
Q. My first question is: What is the date and timestamp on the first text?
A. It's 2016, October 9. The time is UTC time. So it would be -- I remember it was about 10 o'clock at night. I am not sure how you calculate that.
Q. Let's see if we can work together. 0025, is that 12:25 a.m. in UTC time?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, I think you testified earlier that during daylight savings UTC time is four hours ahead of New York time?
A. Yes.
Q. If it's 12:25 a.m. UTC, does that correspond to 8:25 New York time?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was it that you were having dinner with your wife? I don't want the restaurant, just the city.
A. In Greenwich, Connecticut.
Q. Who is this text from?
A. Dylan Howard.
Q. And who is the text to?
A. It was to me. "Woman wants $120,000, has offers from The Mail and GMA. Want her to talk and do lie detector live. I know the denials were made in the past, but this story is true. I can lock it on publication now to shut down the media chatter and we can access next steps thereafter. Okay?"
Q. What did understand that text to mean in general?
A. That American Media should buy the story for $120,000.
Q. Who did you understand the woman to be referring to?
A. Based on the conversation I had over the phone with Dylan Howard, I knew it was Stormy Daniels.
Q. And how did you respond to him in the next text?
A. I guess I should clarify, I said -- I said, we can't pay $120,000.
Q. Is that second entry a response from you to Dylan Howard? I should have clarified that first.
A. Yes, when I spoke to him over the phone -- I would like to add more to this.
Q. Please.
A. When he called me, he mentioned about the story other than not paying $120,000. I said, I don't want the National Enquirer to be associated with a porn star. I said that our largest distributor, our largest retailer, Walmart, this would be very bad for the magazine, very damaging for American Media. I don't want any affiliation with it at all. To call Michael Cohen.
Q. Well -- withdrawn. So you told Dylan Howard that we can't pay $120,000; is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Why did you say that?
A. I said, we already paid $30,000 to the doorman, we paid $150,000 to Karen McDougal, and I am not a bank. I am not paying out any further disbursements among us.
Q. How, if, at all, did Dylan Howard respond?
A. He said: "Okay, they need to handle it. Perhaps I should call Michael and advise him and he could take it from there and handle it."
Q. Who did you understand "they" to be referring to?
A. Michael Cohen and Donald Trump.
Q. And how did you respond to that?
A. I responded, I said, "Yes, a good idea."
Q. Why did you think it was a good idea to kick this over to Michael Cohen?
A. I thought the story, the way Dylan described it, could be very damaging. I thought it should come off the market. If anyone was going to buy it, I thought Michael Cohen and Donald Trump should buy it.