Guede's Taped Skype Conversation

Ciao Rudy, how are you?

Not too well.

Where are you?

I'm in Dusseldorf and I have no money.

Where are you staying?

I'm living in a barge on the Rhine and sleeping on trains, without paying for a ticket. It's tough, I can't do this any more.

Would you like me to send some money?

Well, that would be useful.

OK, look, I'll send you 50 Euros through Western Union, then you can pick it up.

Thanks, but it’s already late in the evening.

They're talking about you here [in Perugia].

I know what happened in Perugia, but they're making a mistake. I am not “The Baron”, I'm called Byron after Scott Byron, the famous basketball player.

But they are saying other things.

Listen, you know I knew those girls, I knew them both, Meredith and Amanda, but nothing more, you know that. I've been to their house twice, the last time a few days before all this business, but I didn't do anything. I have nothing to do with this business. I wasn't there that evening. If they have found my fingerprints it means I must have left them there before.

But your photo is everywhere.

I've seen it, the police were wrong to put my photo around like that. I'm not how they describe me. I have nothing to do with that night.

But if you have nothing to do with it why don't you come back? I'll help you to find a good lawyer who can clear things up.

I'm afraid. But I don't want to stay in Germany, I'm black and if the police catch me I don't know what they might do to me. I prefer Italian jails.

In the newspaper they’re writing that I was drunk and slept on the toilet. That’s crap. In that house we were smoking joints, we smoked and so did those girls, everyone did. After that I said to the guys, who are men of their word, "Listen, guys, I'm tired, I can't walk now, can I sleep over here?" So I slept on their sofa. I was only ever at their place twice. After that, after that I met Amanda, but I didn’t talk to her any more, I just saw her one other time, at that pub, at Lumamba’s pub, whatever his name is.

Right, Lumumba.

just one other time, and we talked in that pub, but after that I didn’t see her any more, I mean I'd see her often in the street, but it was nothing more than a “hello”.

The girl who was killed, I met her the previous evening, we talked.... well, I got to know her during the rugby match.

Wait ‐ the girl you’re talking about, the one you met, who was that? This Meredith?

Yes, Meredith. I’m talking about her now.

You met her? [talking over each other]

Yes. I don’t mean that we hung out together. Up to then, we just saw each other a couple of times, mainly that evening where there was the rugby match between England and South Africa, I was together with a couple of friends at this place, now I can’t remember the name...

Wait, I don’t get it, you saw the match with her? I don’t understand.

I'm telling you how I met her.

Oh, okay.

I met her in that place...

is it a pub? What is it?

That Irish pub in the center near the Kurdish place, what’s it called?

Oh, the Shamrock?

The Shamrock. That’s where they were showing the England‐South Africa match, and I was there with a couple of friends, and she was there too.

I see [sì].

She was there too and we teased each other.

I see [sì].

So then...

So, you were trying to...

No, because I already knew her anyway, it isn't that...

Oh, right, right.

On Halloween, I went out with the Spanish girls [ragazzi], these two girls who live upstairs from me, there are two Spanish girls who live upstairs from me, and on Halloween I spent some time with them. Then we went over to some friends of theirs, together, friends of these girls, and then we went to the house of some other Spanish kids, and that’s where I really talked with...

This was on Halloween?

With Meredith.

Right.

During that party.

OK.

She was disguised as a vampire. You probably saw the pictures.

Yep. In the newspapers.

Well, the next day, we had an appointment to see each other again.

I see.

I don’t know if you get me. The next day...

Yes.

Umm, she was game [c’è stata] and so was I. So, we see each other... So we went in, and I think it was about eight‐thirty, or eight‐twenty, they're saying that she told her friends she was tired and wanted to go home. But in fact no, we were supposed to see each other, we had made an appointment the evening before during the Halloween party, at the Spanish kids' house, and I can also say, well I don't know the street but I can say where it was.

I understand.

If I were in Perugia I could say where that house is, and anyway those kids can confirm that I was at that party.

Okay.

And then, we saw each other at Meredith's house and we started talking...we started talking, and I, well, I tried, I mean I made a pass at her and she was willing [ci stava]. But in the end we didn't do anything because...she didn't have any condoms and neither did I.

Like...in the newspapers it says that...well, you must have done something with her if...

Yes but in fact, I'm telling you we did just ...oral stuff. Nothing, no penetration, because I didn't have a condom, we didn't do anything. And so it's all crap according to me that they said they found my...sperm...male sperm. Then I, that... it's not mine because we didn't do anything.

When we got there, I don't know what happened, but she said "damn".

Something about money you were telling me about?

“The money is gone! The money is gone!”... and she added [detto] “when Amanda comes back, I have to talk to her”. Because they had quarrelled in the evening, because of problems that...Amanda smokes, she smokes...a lot and they quarrelled.

So you think that, like, she took her money for...

no, wait, let me get there, after...

sorry.

Let me get you to understand better, well, it's been said...well, okay, so something that hasn't come out yet, it hasn't come out that...Amanda hasn't talked about umm...money, Raffaele hasn't talked about the money. So only I know this, that she told me her money was missing, that was hidden in the drawer where she kept her underwear.

I see.

She told me this. And after that I went to the bathroom. I really had to go take a shit. And I heard the doorbell. For me, that must have been one of the girls who lived with her. So, I was calmly in the bathroom, like that. And at a certain point...

So you thought it was someone from upstairs?

Yes, no, I thought that, well clearly someone rang the doorbell, they rang and she went and opened it.

Okay

so for me it was...it could have been anyone for me, see?

Sure, sure.

It could have been Amanda, it could have been... anyone.

So you were calmly taking a shit, I get it.

I was in the bathroom, so for me, well, I didn't worry about it, because anyway in the end we were going to be seeing each other and... I was in the bathroom, in the bathroom maybe five minutes. So, I really had to take this shit, but then I heard a scream, but let me tell you, a really loud scream, so loud that according to me, if anyone was passing by, nearby, they would have heard this scream, because she screamed so loud...and then, then, I got a bit worried and I got out of the bathroom right away, without even putting my pants back on, they were practically falling down, I was wearing just my underwear and my pants were falling around my...

But if I understand, I mean like where was this...I mean, what time do you think this happened, I don't know...

Around nine, nine twenty or so, because in the meantime we had gotten to talking and all.

I see.

I think nine‐twenty, nine‐thirty, around then, and then, when I heard the scream, let me tell you she screamed so loud that you could hear it even in the street, Giacomo, she screamed really loud. When I came out, it was in semi‐darkness, I came out and I saw him.

But who?

His back was turned, and then I said “what the hell is going on?”.

Masked? What the hell was this guy like?

Well, firstly this person wasn't bigger than me, I mean taller, physically, in height, he wasn't taller than me. His back was turned, and I saw there...Meredith...I saw Meredith who was bleeding already, she had a slash in her throat, and this guy took a knife and I've got wounds on my hands because I grabbed his hand, he tried to stab me and I still have the wounds on my hands, the signs, that are healing now, but I still have them on my hand...

I tried to help her, Giacomo, it's not that...my blood, no, I don't know if there is any or not, because I didn't bleed, I didn't actually bleed, my wounds that I had, the guy just wounded me lightly, it didn't bleed, now I can't tell you... GB

I tried to help her, and if my prints are in the house, it's obvious because I touched everything, Giacomo.

Sure, I believe it if you were there, but listen, this guy, you can't manage to say anything about what the hell he was like? That could be important.

Yes but that guy, well, it was almost dark, I didn't see his face, but I say he was Italian because he, we...we insulted each other. I insulted him. And he insulted me and he didn't have a foreign accent, and he wasn't any taller than me, I don't know how tall this Stefano or whoever is, but he certainly wasn't taller than me.

So was he, like, blond? What the hell was he like, didn't you manage to see anything?

I can't tell you, I think...brown‐haired, more brown, not blond because, well you can really see when someone is blond...

All right, so not exactly blond, hell do I know, say chestnut?

Yes, brown, like brown between...between blond and brown.

It's called chestnut.

But not light.

It's called chestnut, but...

In the room it was darkened, it was intimate, it was darkened.

I get it.

And since my pants were falling down, because I hurried out of the bathroom, I hurried out of the bathroom, I fell on the ground, and then the guy ran away, he escaped, he went out the door, see? And then I got up, and I tried to help, to staunch the wounds, I took a towel in the bathroom, I tried to...to...

Staunch the wound?

...to put it into the wound, see, I was trying, and she was clinging to me hard, very hard. So first of all, I know...it's not that I ran away, but I was scared, I don't know why I didn't call the ambulance, it's because...I was alone there right then, alone, and I was completely covered [zuppo] in blood, and I was scared that they would blame only me.

Listen to this [Guede is reading from a newspaper], “Meredith's clothes were put in the washing machine. When the police came to the house it was still full, the girl's clothes were wet”, so if that really did happen, Amanda or Raffaele did it. Do you understand? That must have been them, if it really happened.

Why would they have done that?

Because when I left she was dressed, see?

Meredith? The girl who died?

But Meredith was dressed.

So they killed her dressed?

Yes, but it says here that they were washed in the washing machine, but it's not true, she was dressed, she had a pair of jeans on and a white shirt and a woolen thing. She was dressed.

All right, and that...

This means that they washed them, Giacomo. I left [the house], and that guy [quello] must have left that house and...

But what the hell did Amanda go wash the clothes for?

How the hell do I know?

But if she's not involved, sorry ‐ I'm reasoning like you would, if I were...

Yes but then, after, though, from what I've read, someone else came, because when I left, the window wasn't broken, Giacomo, the window of the house, that window out front, it wasn't broken.

And you think it's important about the window and the money that wasn't there anymore?

Sure, it means someone broke it, and it wasn't me.